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Nine elder (아홉 장로). Sittuyin + Shogi.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Nov 5, 2020 09:01 AM UTC in reply to bukovski from Sun Nov 1 09:13 PM:

The placement of the pieces was referred to Old Sittuyin. Except for the Cannon and Van, which can change positions with each other, unlike the modern Sittuyin, you cannot change the position of the pieces.

(Old Sittuyin link : https://billyoung.tistory.com/?page=102)

Thank you for asking!


bukovski wrote on Sun, Nov 1, 2020 09:13 PM UTC:

So no free arrangement of pieces behind the pawn line like sittuyin, only the possible transposition of cannon and van before the start of the game? I look forward to trying this variant.


Greg Strong wrote on Sat, Oct 24, 2020 04:05 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 02:58 PM:

There should be a link that says Edit This Page. Or you can post the introduction and I will update it.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sat, Oct 24, 2020 02:58 PM UTC in reply to Ben Reiniger from Thu Oct 22 04:17 PM:

thank you !!


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sat, Oct 24, 2020 02:58 PM UTC in reply to Greg Strong from Thu Oct 22 10:15 PM:
files=9 ranks=9 holdingsType=-1 maxPromote=5 promoZone=3 promoOffset=8 royal=7 promoChoice=+ graphicsDir=../graphics.dir/alfaerie/ whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=gif squareSize=54 lightShade=#F0FFC0 darkShade=#C8E0A8 symmetry=none pawn:P:fW:pawn:a3,b3,c3,d3,e3,f3,g3,h3,i3,,a7,b7,c7,d7,e7,f7,g7,h7,i7 cannon:C:pR:cannon:b2,h2,,b8,h8 horse:H:asfW:horse:c1,g1,,c9,g9 spear:S:WfFfafFfafW:promotedsilvergeneral:b1,h1,,b9,h9 rook:R:R:rook:a1,i1,,a9,i9 guard:G:K:guard:d1,f1,,d9,f9 king:K:K:king:e1,,e9 queen:Q:Q:queen:e2,,e8 promoted pawn:+P:K:chinesepawn:, promoted cannon:+C:mRpRFAcpR:lance:, promoted spear:+S:K:mage:, promoted horse:+H:K:moon:, dragon:+R:RF:promotedrook:,

💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Sat, Oct 24, 2020 11:03 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from Fri Sep 4 04:22 PM:
files=9 ranks=9 holdingsType=-1 promoOffset=10 promoZone=3 maxPromote=7 royal=9 royal=10 promoChoice=+ graphicsDir=../graphics.dir/alfaerie/ whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=gif squareSize=54 darkShade=#FFFFFF symmetry=none pawn(hu):P:fsW:chinesepawn:a3,c3,e3,g4,i4,,a6,c6,e7,g7,i7 incense(kyou):I:R:rook:a1,i1,,a9,,i9 angle(kaku):A:B:bishop:b2,,h8 silver(gin):S:FfW:silvergeneral:g2,h3,,b7,c8 cassia(kei):C:asfW:horse:e2,f2,,d8,e8 cannon(hou):N:pR:cannon:c2,,g8 van(zen):V:mRpcR:lance:d2,,f8 gold(kin):G:WfF:goldgeneral:g3,,c7 jade(gyoku):J:K:kingrook:h2 king(ou):J:K:king:,,b8 gilding(to):+P:WfF:promotedshogipawn:, dragon(ryuu):+I:RF:promotedrook:, horse(uma):+A:BW:promotedbishop:, whole(narigin):+S:WfF:promotedsilvergeneral:, scepter(narikei):+C:WfF:promotedshogihorse:, iron(tetsu):+N:mRpR:moon:, copper(dou):+V:mRpR:mage:,

Greg Strong wrote on Thu, Oct 22, 2020 10:15 PM UTC:

One other comment - you should consider writing something in the introduction. Not required, and it does not need to be long, but people are more likely to read about your game if you explain why you made it or why you think it is good.


Ben Reiniger wrote on Thu, Oct 22, 2020 04:17 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 06:20 AM:

Better, thanks!

For Sennichite, I think you don't want "in a row", as that (to me) implies consecutive turns (and the position cannot be repeated in consecutive turns!). And in the consecutive checks part, do you mean only that Sennichite results in a loss if the repeated position is you giving check? (If so, probably "consecutive" should be removed; if not, then the difference should be called out.)

Anyway, this is close enough, so I'll unhide the page while it gets final cleaning.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Thu, Oct 22, 2020 06:20 AM UTC in reply to Ben Reiniger from Wed Oct 21 09:04 PM:

I've edited all!


Ben Reiniger wrote on Wed, Oct 21, 2020 09:04 PM UTC:
  1. I don't understand the pawn drop rules. Am I allowed to drop a pawn that attacks the opponent's Jade if they have no pieces that could capture the pawn? If so, do I win?

  2. I really don't understand Jitai. When exactly does it become effective? What are the "props" currently mentioned? If both players have fewer than 31 points do they both lose (is that a draw?)?

  3. I'd suggest the first promotion rule being changed from "are promoted" to "may be promoted", since it seems the intention is that promotion is always optional.

  4. In defining Sennichite, "phase" and "shape" should be replaced by "board position" or "game state", if one of those accurately captures your meaning. You mention "Highground" in the playoff, but that doesn't seem to exist in this game?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Mon, Oct 19, 2020 01:59 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from Fri Oct 16 11:58 AM:

Really thank you for your answer!! but can this be published please?


H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Oct 16, 2020 11:58 AM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 10:32 AM:

No. Members can see submissions too, nowadays. You would not be able to see it if you are not signed in. It is not published.


Aurelian Florea wrote on Fri, Oct 16, 2020 10:32 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 04:18 AM:

I can see it and I am not an editor. That means it is published.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Fri, Oct 16, 2020 04:18 AM UTC in reply to Greg Strong from Wed Sep 30 03:15 AM:

Are you having trouble getting this published please?


Greg Strong wrote on Wed, Sep 30, 2020 03:15 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from Tue Sep 29 10:43 AM:

Ok, I understand now. I should have time to edit this and get it published sometime this weekend.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Tue, Sep 29, 2020 10:43 AM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 10:28 AM:

Miller / Yes. Cannon and Van keep their names. Thank you.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Tue, Sep 29, 2020 10:37 AM UTC in reply to dax00 from 09:23 AM:

dax00 / ?? nope;


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Sep 29, 2020 10:28 AM UTC in reply to dax00 from 09:23 AM:

The problem is that in Korean Chess the Cannon moves as described here. So it depends on what your background is which move you consider more natuaral.


dax00 wrote on Tue, Sep 29, 2020 09:23 AM UTC:

It doesn't make any sense to use a piece whose movement is widely known to be that of the cannon (from xiangqi) and call it something else, while calling another piece a cannon. The solution is simple: switch the names to follow convention. Van to cannon, cannon to van.


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Tue, Sep 29, 2020 01:22 AM UTC in reply to Greg Strong from Mon Sep 28 10:01 PM:

Iron and Copper have the same movement. Iron/Copper can move like the Van or Cannon.

so, as Betza notation,

< Cannon = pR >

< Van = mRpcR >

< Iron/Copper = mRpR >


Greg Strong wrote on Mon, Sep 28, 2020 10:01 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from 05:47 PM:

Copper = So, It can move like the Cannon. and It can also move like the Rook but cannot capture with this move.

I believe this just describes the Van.  How is a Copper different than a Van?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Mon, Sep 28, 2020 05:47 PM UTC in reply to Greg Strong from Sat Sep 26 01:08 AM:
Promoted Incense. It moves as a Rook or moves 1 square orthogonally.
A Rook already moves orthogonally, so this only describes a Rook. Did you mean diagonally? Also, you sometimes describe this move as "Rook" and sometimes as "Incense" although I think they are the same. Using "Rook" would help most people here to understand, but either way you should be consistent. You could still call the piece "Incense" while describing its movement as that of a Rook.

= Ah I'm sorry. I wrote wrong... I fixed it.

Cannon - It moves as a Rook but it must hop over a intervening piece.
Ok. Just to be clear - it cannot move or capture without hopping?

= Yes.

Van - It moves as a Rook but it must hop over a intervening piece to capture enemy.
Ok. So like a Cannon in Chinese Chess... (You already used "Cannon" for something else so our readers will find this confusing.) And then:

= Yes. the Van is same as the Cannon from Xiangqi. but i already used name Cannon, so I felt the need to create a new name. that is Van.

Copper - Promoted Van. It moves as a Cannon or as a Van.
Either I do not understand Cannon and Van or this does not make sense. A Cannon is just a Van with fewer options. So Cannon + Van is just a Van.

= So, It can move like the Cannon. and It can also move like the Rook but cannot capture with this move.

Cassia - it can leap over piece, but if there is a piece in the path, it cannot move in that direction.
This is a contradiction. Can it leap or not?

= Ah it cannot leap. I wrote wrong. I fixed it.

Pieces that reach the enemy camp (7th to 9th rank) are promoted.
Is this automatic or can a player chose not to promote?

= Both players can chose not to promote.

Cannon, Van, Incense, and Angle are counted as 5 points and the remaining pieces are counted as 1 point each. When becoming Jishogi, the player with a total score of less than 35 loses.
I do not understand this. Are you saying that as soon as a player has less than 35 points worth of pieces, they lose immediately?

= Yes. he lose. it is same as Jishogi from Shogi, but only the point calculation is different.


Greg Strong wrote on Sat, Sep 26, 2020 01:08 AM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from Fri Sep 18 04:52 PM:

Hi Daphne,

This is something that could be published, but I have some questions:

Promoted Incense. It moves as a Rook or moves 1 square orthogonally.

A Rook already moves orthogonally, so this only describes a Rook.  Did you mean diagonally?  Also, you sometimes describe this move as "Rook" and sometimes as "Incense" although I think they are the same.  Using "Rook" would help most people here to understand, but either way you should be consistent.  You could still call the piece "Incense" while describing its movement as that of a Rook.

Cannon - It moves as a Rook but it must hop over a intervening piece.

Ok.  Just to be clear - it cannot move or capture without hopping?

Van - It moves as a Rook but it must hop over a intervening piece to capture enemy.

Ok.  So like a Cannon in Chinese Chess...  (You already used "Cannon" for something else so our readers will find this confusing.)  And then:

Copper - Promoted Van. It moves as a Cannon or as a Van.

Either I do not understand Cannon and Van or this does not make sense.  A Cannon is just a Van with fewer options.  So Cannon + Van is just a Van.

Cassia - it can leap over piece, but if there is a piece in the path, it cannot move in that direction.

This is a contradiction.  Can it leap or not?

Pieces that reach the enemy camp (7th to 9th rank) are promoted.

Is this automatic or can a player chose not to promote?

Cannon, Van, Incense, and Angle are counted as 5 points and the remaining pieces are counted as 1 point each. When becoming Jishogi, the player with a total score of less than 35 loses.

I do not understand this.  Are you saying that as soon as a player has less than 35 points worth of pieces, they lose immediately?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Fri, Sep 18, 2020 04:52 PM UTC in reply to Daphne Snowmoon from Fri Sep 4 04:22 PM:

Can this be published please?


💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Fri, Sep 4, 2020 04:22 PM UTC:
files=9 ranks=9 holdingsType=-1 promoOffset=10 promoZone=3 maxPromote=7 royal=9 royal=10 promoChoice=+ graphicsDir=../graphics.dir/alfaerie/ whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=gif squareSize=54 darkShade=#FFFFFF symmetry=none pawn(hu):P:fsW:chinesepawn:a3,c3,e3,g4,i4,,a6,c6,e7,g7,i7 incense(kyou):I:R:rook:a1,i1,,a9,,i9 angle(kaku):A:B:bishop:b2,,h8 silver(gin):S:FfW:silvergeneral:g2,h3,,b7,c8 cassia(kei):C:asfW:horse:e2,f2,,d8,e8 cannon(hou):N:pR:cannon:c2,,g8 van(zen):V:mRpcR:lance:d2,,f8 gold(kin):G:WfF:goldgeneral:g3,,c7 jade(gyoku):J:K:kingrook:h2 king(ou):J:K:king:,,b8 gilding(to):+P:WfF:promotedshogipawn:, dragon(ryuu):+I:RF:promotedrook:, horse(uma):+A:BW:promotedbishop:, whole(narigin):+S:WfF:promotedsilvergeneral:, scepter(narikei):+C:WfF:promotedshogihorse:, iron(tetsu):+N:mRpR:moon:, copper(dou):+V:mRpR:mage:,

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