Kibbitz Listing
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![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
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![Verified as Вадря Покштя](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Вадря Покштя](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Вадря Покштя](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
I have used this two-move opening in CWDA for years. But this time I ignored Ralph Betza's advice to keep the pawn structure locked up, preventing the Black Bishops from dominating the open lines.
My plan was to play 38. CH d2-c4 and capture the Pawn on d4 later, but at the last minute I chose another move. Bad idea! Congrats to the winner.
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as A. M. DeWitt](/index/verified.gif)
Good luck and have fun! I am eager to receive feedback.
Hopefully soon I will be able to used the Mnemonic and Kanji images from the Interactive Diagram for this preset.
![Verified as Bob Greenwade](/index/verified.gif)
@H.G.: There seems to be something wrong with this game. I'm not sure whether it's my coding or yours, but I'm getting the list of legal moves, and the rifle capture I'm trying to do isn't among them; it's not letting me do my move.
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
It has been pointed out that 22...k c6-B5 was the only legal move. In that position the lone White Queen is in danger of running out of checks.
EDIT [May 2023] my original notes here were incorrect.
Planning to run some computer analysis at a later date.
- - - - - -
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
Does "Kibbitzing Comments" still work? Matthew La Vallee gave a link to his Game Courier Preset for Mattexperiment 2 at the bottom of this page on 2008-04-05. This 16x16 game (lacking rules) apparently gave each player a Gryphon, two Nightriders and two Roses. Comments by Matthew La Vallee contains one with no subject header dated 2008-04-22 that discusses how a Rose moves.
A little searching turned up presets named Mattexperiment 1d and Mattexperiment 1f. Sad to say, all we have left of his efforts are some pretty pictures.
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
Hypothetical situation illustrating how White could anti-checkmate Blue, starting from board position 1 following the sequence 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
1
2
3
4
5
6
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as CSS Dixieland](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as CSS Dixieland](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as CSS Dixieland](/index/verified.gif)
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![Verified as CSS Dixieland](/index/verified.gif)
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![Verified as CSS Dixieland](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Daniel Zacharias](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as CSS Dixieland](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as CSS Dixieland](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Adrian](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
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![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jean-Louis Cazaux](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jean-Louis Cazaux](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jean-Louis Cazaux](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Erik Lerouge](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
The quintessence or essential nightrider. Every 2 consecutive jumps as a knight is equivalent to one jump as a camel, hence it is said that its axis of development is (3,1) or (1,3).
The following diagram shows an overview of all its possible paths starting from the r18 square.
In the following diagram only the red development is shown, which allows us to better appreciate the two parallel routes that are formed under the same axis.
1. guard --> circle --> guard --> circle --> guard --> etc.
2. wazir --> circle --> wazir --> circle --> wazir --> etc.
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as dax00](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
Knightwazirzee: may move as knight, wazir, one of each or twice as one (knight; wazir; knight + wazir; wazir + knight; knight + knight; or wazir + wazir). The 1's signify that the piece can move to those positions on first move, the 2's signify it takes 2 moves to get to that square.
Let's see some examples in detail.
g7 can be reached by 8 paths:
1) f6-f7-g7
2) f6-g6-g7
3) f6-e8-g7
4) f6-h5-g7
5) f6-g8-g7
6) f6-h7-g7
7) f6-e6-g7
8) f6-f5-g7
h8 can be reached by 4 paths:
1) f6-f7-h8
2) f6-g6-h8
3) f6-g8-h8
4) f6-h7-h8
i9 can be reached by 2 paths only:
1) f6-g8-i9
2) f6-h7-i9
f8 can be reached by 7 paths:
1) f6-f7-f8
2) f6-d7-f8
3) f6-e8-f8
4) f6 h7-f8
5) f6-g8-f8
6) f6-e6-f8
7) f6-g6-f8
g9 can be reached by 4 paths:
1) f6-h7-g9
2) f6-e8-g9
3) f6-g8-g9
4) f6-f7-g9
h10 can be reached only by 1 path as a normal nightrider: f6-g8-h10
![Verified as dax00](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
Diagram showing the Bottom Heart way of moving. It is a slider that can stop at any of the 4 squares marked in the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4.
The following diagram shows the moves of
and
Crabdabbabah = Crab + Dabbabah.
The different colored circles are just to highlight the two different ways of moving but in both it is possible to capture opposing pieces.
Be careful with the detail that "forward" here means "down" when one sees the icons of the opponent's pieces
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as dax00](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as dax00](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
This should be the last insertion before updating works. I had to retrieve the new primary key after an insertion.
Now to update for real.
That didn't work. I made the kibbitzid field visible.
1319 is the KibbitzID number. Will it change or remain the same when I try to update?
It worked after I set a value for $kibbitzid before writing the form.
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
This should be the last insertion before updating works. I had to retrieve the new primary key after an insertion.
Now to update for real.
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
This should be the last insertion before updating works. I had to retrieve the new primary key after an insertion.
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
That last update was still an insertion. I had to change the name of an input field from subjectid to kibbitzid.
Update or Insert?
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
That last update was still an insertion. I had to change the name of an input field from subjectid to kibbitzid.
Update or Insert?
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
That last update was still an insertion. I had to change the name of an input field from subjectid to kibbitzid.
Update or Insert?
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
That last update was still an insertion. I had to change the name of an input field from subjectid to kibbitzid.
Update or Insert?
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
That last update was still an insertion. I had to change the name of an input field from subjectid to kibbitzid.
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
This is a test Kibbitz comment using editcomment.php.
Attempting to update Kibbitz comment.
Attempting to update for real, since it didn't use the game and log names the first time it created it, which made the first update an insertion.
That last update was also an insertion. This should be a real update now that I have given a value to $row["KibbitzID"] before posting.
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
This is a test Kibbitz comment using editcomment.php.
Attempting to update Kibbitz comment.
Attempting to update for real, since it didn't use the game and log names the first time it created it, which made the first update an insertion.
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
This is a test Kibbitz comment using editcomment.php.
Attempting to update Kibbitz comment.
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
White's move 16.B b1-b2 was illegal. Also Black's move 19... b g8-f7 was illegal.
Is the wording of The Bishops Conversion Rule confusing?
![Verified as Сергей Бугаевский](/index/verified.gif)
я не могу сделать ход в партии. нет кнопкти сделать ход
![Verified as Сергей Бугаевский](/index/verified.gif)
я не могу сделать ход в партии. нет кнопкти сделать ход
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
I would have liked to have castled on move 16, for example, f1-i1, but the preset wouldn't let me.
Does this preset need to be re-programmed? Also, even though I can castle now, it doesn't seem to include all available options for castling.
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
Aargh! Talk about hitting the wrong button!
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
woops! I typed "end" instead of "won" - my rustiness coming through in the form of faulty commands. Then the preset stopped working and didn't give me the win! Darn!
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
Thanks for the game, Carlos.
For future reference, at least for over-the-board tournament standard chess, the rule I believe is that a draw offer can only be accepted upon the very turn that it is offered. Otherwise a fresh draw offer by one of the players is required. I had assumed that this was also the case for Game Courier rules, too, but in any case I'm not opposed to the draw being finalized at this move, in this present game.
Kevin
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
Yes, it is checkmate. Thanks to you too, Kevin, for having played. Nicely done!
![Verified as Tim O'Lena](/index/verified.gif)
How does one accept a Draw here ???
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
I had read your comments, Carlos and I took notice :)!
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
Yes, the new Ubi-Ubi could be named as cuasi-UU or semi-UU. For now, I will keep calling it with its original name.
If the King could still be in check by the Ubi Ubi if it has just captured any piece, what it means is that the King can not actually capture that piece because it's illegal for it to put itself in check.
I did not understand your last question. Could you please clarify it a bit. To improve what?
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
I think it is a neat rule for such a overpowered piece. But the king could still be in checkmate by the ubi ubi if it has just captured so basically for not very crowded boards the ubi ubi defendes everything. The piece you have invented could very well deserve a new name :)! I usually don't look at kibbitz comments as I don't get notifications for it (I porbably do on email but I barelly use that one). Any idea how to improve on that :)?
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
You have answered my questions, Thanks :)!
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
Aurelian:
Before moving, let's make some considerations.
This variant is still under construction so we have to make some adjustments on the way. In general, I try to ensure that each and every piece retains (as much as possible) the attributes they have in the games from which they come.
Given that White's Ubi-Ubi (UU) from h1 is checkmating Blue's King by h1-g3-e4-c3-a4-b6-a8, I propose that we make an exception to the PREGAME RULE and try to play starting from this setup modifying slightly the UU's attributes: NON-CAPTURING it will move normally according its move rule states, but it will be able to capture ONLY those pieces that in the immediate previous turn had captured any piece of its own, in other words, UU can make a capture only if this capture is a RE-CAPTURE.
For example, in the following diagram:
If White to move, then UUxe8 (a3-b5-d6-e8) would be illegal; but if Blue to move and makes Rxe3 (Rook x Bishop), then UUxe3 (a3-c4-e3) would be perfectly legal. Under this view, the King will always be immune to checks from UU.
What do you think? Would you agree? Do you have any questions regarding the other pieces?
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
There are a number of two-step pieces in the game. They may take both steps of their normal move, but only once. A piece may not make its normal move, 'commanded' by 1 leader, then make a second move, 'commanded' by another leader.
Yes, a leader must be in a section at the start of the turn for a piece in that section to move.
As for the jumping general, I clarified the language. The 2 pieces which together make up the jumping general are the modern versions of the elephant and war machine, not the ancient versions.
Hope this answers all your questions.
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
I am a bit confused about the rules of the second game. I think you mean that the leader must stay in that section in order for pieces iin that section to move, but I'm not sure. Also what do you mean by: " No piece may ever be moved twice in one turn ". Aren't the bent shaman and bend here and two others supposed to do just that? Or they do their regular double moves, but not twice the double moves?
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
About the article with the rules.
In the pieces section the jumping general does not seem properly described. It should move from what I've got from other of your sources like a king, alfil or dababah, but it seems you forgot the king move which is confusing because later you mention one step move. You have once described an alibaba and the second time an KAD.
I understand from the article bent shaman and bent hero have to use one step and one leap in contrast to the more freer zig zag pieces form Atlantean Barroom Shatranj :)! I like the promotion rules but the [pieces seem overall quite weak :(!
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
The piece on e1/e8 is the Ultima's Coordinator. Such an icon belongs to the Alfaerie Pieces Set .
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
Ok, strategy reasons :)! I guess I'll find out :)!
I meant the piece on e file. Does it move like a queen and capture like a king?
I'm sorry for writting "f" previously.
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
Yes, the first piece to be dropped is the Wazir (from A1/A18) and the first "pawn" is the Camel/Pawn (from S1/S18).
The Camel/Pawn may move like a standard Pawn or like a non-capturing only-forward Camel. Okay? All the 8 Pawns from the starting setup are standard ones so they may make the double step initial move and are subject of being captured en passant. I did not move my "d" Pawn twice for strategy reasons that I can not reveal!
The piece placed on f1/f8 is the most powerful of this setup; it may move and capture like QUEEN and also may move and capture like CAMEL; it is similar to the Amazon; so enjoy it!
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
I believe Black's 18th move with a Butterfly capture of a White pawn is illegal. Refer to diagram on preset of how a Butterfly moves.
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
Interesting position here. "Fortresses" on the king side. White almost looks like he castled.
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jose Carrillo](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![](https://www.chessvariants.com/membergraphics/MSajaxchess/ajax_falcon.jpg)
The Ajax Falcon is NOT a leaper, so just like the Korean Elephant must also have the path clear to reach the 2nd diagonal square (labeled 3 on the diagram), but the Ajax Falcon can also move and capture at any square along the path to their 3rd square.
Therefore the Ajax Falcon can stop on it's 1st diagonal square (labeled 2 on the diagram), provided the first orthogonal step is empty; giving the Ajax Falcon the Korean Horse move capability; or it can just move and capture on it's first orthogonal square (labeled 1 on the diagram) in the path of it's Korean Elephant move, just like a Wazir.
Finally the Ajax Falcon has a one 'non-capturing' step in the remaining diagonal directions (red circles in the diagram), like a Ferz, to complete the one-step movement characteristic of the Ajax pieces.
[Diagram and text taken from Ajax Falcon Chess.]
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Nick Wolff](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Greg Strong](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Aurelian Florea](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Greg Strong](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Homo Simia](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Daniel Zacharias](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Evert Jan Karman](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Evert Jan Karman](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Evert Jan Karman](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Evert Jan Karman](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Kevin Pacey](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
In this particular case, both players have to know the two important writings 'Nachtmahr' and 'Passed Pawns, Scorpions and Dragon' by Jörg Knappen and George Duke, respectively, to move properly the Quintessence or Essential Nightrider [c1/c8] and the Dragon [e1/e8]. Since the third piece that must be dropped is nothing less than the Lion [Chu Shogi's Shishi], players will have to be familiar with this game too.
Reviewing this starting setup, we see it's perfectly legal because there is no any undefended pawn that may be capturable at the first turn. The pawn on f2 is protected by the c1-Quintessence Nightrider via c1-d3-f2, while the pawn on f7 is protected via c8-d6-f7.
Look out! After 1... p c7-c6, the h2-pawn is pinned.
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
For Blue:
1st: the pawn on S1 at any turn between the 6 and 10 (including 6 and 10)
2nd: the pawn on T1 at any turn between the 16 and 20 (including 16 and 20)
3rd: the pawn on U1 at any turn between the 26 and 30 (including 26 and 30)
4th: the pawn on S2 at any turn between the 36 and 40 (including 36 and 40)
5th: the pawn on T2 at any turn between the 46 and 50 (including 46 and 50)
6th: the pawn on U2 at any turn between the 56 and 60 (including 56 and 60)
7th: the pawn on S3 at any turn between the 66 and 70 (including 66 and 70)
and so on.
For White:
1st: the pawn on S18 at any turn between the 7 and 11 (including 7 and 11)
2nd: the pawn on T18 at any turn between the 17 and 21 (including 17 and 21)
3rd: the pawn on U18 at any turn between the 27 and 31 (including 27 and 31)
4th: the pawn on S17 at any turn between the 37 and 41 (including 37 and 41)
5th: the pawn on T17 at any turn between the 47 and 51 (including 47 and 51)
6th: the pawn on U17 at any turn between the 57 and 61 (including 57 and 61)
7th: the pawn on S16 at any turn between the 67 and 71 (including 67 and 71)
and so on.
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as danielmacduff](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Hook](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Julian](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Julian](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Julian](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Rick Knowlton](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Rick Knowlton](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Julian](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
If anyone is interested, the preset can be accessed here.
![Verified as Julian](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
Yes, essentially a crooked queen! Good way of seeing it. It's a Crooked Rook + Crooked Bishop.....
![Verified as John Davis](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
I want to experiment with this by saying [re-edited the following:] captured pawns are allowed to be re-dropped later, shogi-style...in files that don't have a pawn. This only applies to pawns, not pieces.
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
If you like to try Coherent Chess 2, the preset can be accessed here.
Of course, I'm willing to play both versions at the same time!
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
In order to make the gameplay a bit more dynamic, guards could be replaced by sliding generals while bishops replaced by dragon horses.
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Georg Spengler](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Carlos Cetina](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
Congrats on a well-earned and well-deserved victory. :) Please email me.
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Cameron Miles](/index/verified.gif)
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Responding to your thoughtful offer... 'On any given day, I will either move once at 12:00 a.m. UTC (give or take [at most] 5 minutes), or not at all.'
...I won't object to this but neither can I demand it since I made everyone wait for months and months for my moves, for no really great reason other than that I was intimidated...
Best regards.
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The following diagram shows all possible routes the quintessence may run starting from r18:
We can see that there are 8 'pure' and 8 'impure' trajectories. The first are indicated by guards of a same color. The second by a mix of guards and wazirs. For example, the guard-wazir-yellow path starts from r18 then follows by GU_r s20 - GU_y q21 - W r23 - GU_y p24 - W_y q26 - GU_y o27 etc. Note that white wazirs are a sort of hinges.
What do you mean for 'more limited quintessences'? Would the above two classes fit in the idea you have in mind?
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Quoting you.
'I'd be curious to hear any thoughts/analysis you might have for the CC2 game that we recently finished (about 4 weeks ago). It was quite a long game, and a lot happened in it. I already mentioned the blunder at move 43 as the last opportunity that I missed, but I'm sure I misplayed some earlier positions as well. It took far too long for me to complete development (the Black queen was a particularly useless, passive piece), and by the time I came close to doing so, there were too many threats piling up, leading to an unpleasant, defensive position.' [shatteredglass-sissa-2014-185-035]
'I really cannot say enough about the sheer diversity that is added to this game by the randomized and asymmetrical opening setups, combined with having 7 distinct major pieces. Each game seems to have its own unique 'feel', which is especially pronounced in the opening and early middlegame but continues to influence the strategies of both sides as the game progresses.' [sissa-shatteredglass-2013-355-674]
Peculiarities of this variant you point out determine that some basic notions of chess [like development of pieces] are not fully applicable here. From the first move players face the enormous challenge of finding the best strategic plan, and move after move they are the architect of their own destiny. So, I don't think the Blue queen was a particularly useless, passive piece.
In general, the game elapse more or less equaled until 28... p d6-d5? that cost to Blue one pawn. It was better 28... p h7-h5.
Another history would have been after 43... a c5-a3 44.C h1-d1 p h7-h6 45.K e2-f2 r a8-a6 46.R b6xa6 c c7xa6 47.K f2-g3 a a3xc4 48.P d3xc4+ c a6-d6, etc.
After 1.P b2-b3, Blue could have chosen a different strategic plan by moving 1... p e7-e6, with the idea of replying 2.DH c1-b2 dh d8-f6 or 2.DH c1-a3+ dh d8-e7.
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Oh well. Good game!
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Nevermind, punish me for carelessness.
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![](../membergraphics/MScetranchess2/cetran_chess_2_sissa-judgmentality-2009-182-888.png)
White to move.
The rook on d2 is obstructing the sissa's checking path d1-d4-a1. It is SEMI pinned. Rg2, Rf2, Re2 and Rc2 are illegal moves; but Rb2, Rd3 and Rd4 are legal since the rook itself obstructs the checking path. On the d column the illegality begins at d5 and follows to d6 and d7.
Might White make Rxd8+? Is the movement of the pieces on the board an untimed, instantaneous action? Or like in the real world they spend some time to go from one another square?
The position is taken from this game: sissa-judgmentality-2009-182-888
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There are two ways to make your move. Joe Joyce wrote:
'You've gone into the game 'the wrong way'. Either click on the link in any of the email notifications you received that it was your turn, or go to 'what's New' at chessvariants.org, click on the top item there - the most recent game courier move. This will take you to the Game Courier logs page. Enter your name and password there, and submit. When your list of games comes up, click on your name rather than the game log itself, to get to the game.'
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Aanca's legal moves from f6:
1)f6-f7-g8-h9
2)f6-f7-e9-d11
3)f6-g6-i5-k4
4)f6-g6-h7-i8
5)f6-g5-i4-k3
6)f6-g5-h3-i1
7)f6-f5-e4-d3
8)f6-f5-g3-h1
9)f6-e6-c7-a8
10)f6-e6-d5-c4
11)f6-e7-d9-c11
12)f6-e7-c8-a9
Gryphon's legal moves from f6:
1)f6-g7-h7-i7-j7
2)f6-g7-g8-g9-g10
3)f6-h5-i4-j3-k2
4)f6-h5-i5-j5-k5
5)f6-g4-h3-i2-j1
6)f6-g4-g3-g2-g1
7)f6-e5-e4-e3-e2
8)f6-e5-d5-c5-b5
9)f6-d7-c8-b9-a10
10f6-d7-c7-b7-a7
11)f6-e8-e9-e10-e11
12)f6-e8-d9-c10-b11
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I apologize for all personal attacks I have made.
- Sam
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Possibly, but I think it would be best if you stop the personal attacks. I hope I can get someone to just delete this entire thread. Like I said, I think people are taking this tournament far too seriously.
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The fact of the matter is that I don't have time for this tournament, not if it's going to be taken this seriously. I expected something which was more casual than what you guys want.
I apologize for the withdraw.
- Sam
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Nick, you typed 'resign-', this command will not work with a '-' on the end.
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Wuss has nowhere to move so game is lost. Had you moved your a1 Silver Bullet instead to create necessary Luft, my next move would have been moving my Philidor from c7-c6 turning it into a Berolina with threat of c6-d5 turning back into regular pawn again and trapping your Famous Oxford Don on e4! You could then move c3-a4, turning your Regret into a Knight and threatening to fork my wuss and queen on b7. I would then move my Wuss to remove that threat. Just some reflections.
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For the information of the casual viewer: this game was played using a different Unicorn piece from this webpage. Shortly after this particular game began, the Raumschach preset was corrected to show alternate colors for the squares on the second and fourth boards.
See also L. Lynn Smith's Zillions file for Monster 3D Chess. In that 6x6x6 variant the Unicorn moves as in classic Raumschach, while the colorbound Hippogriff 'leaps to the opposite corner of a 2x2x3 area'.
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Jeremy: I have continued thinking on drops subject and believe it is perfectly possible that Black maintains the option of making not only the first but every.
What we need is to establish the drop order of both players with a dephasing of one turn between them, something like this:
Black's:
1st at any turn between 6 and 10 (including 6 and 10)2nd at any turn between 11 and 15 (including 11 and 15)
3rd at any turn between 16 and 20 (including 16 and 20)
and so on.
White's;
1st at any turn between 7 and 11 (including 7 and 11)2nd at any turn between 12 and 16 (including 12 and 16)
3rd at any turn between 17 and 21 (including 17 and 21)
and so on.
Everything is possible in this beautiful world!
Regarding castling, I maintain my initial proposal:
- If the king falls on the corners, there is no need of any castling;- If he falls on b1/b8 or g1/g8, then the king would remain there and the piece on the nearest corner to him would leap to c1/c8 or f1/f8.
- If he falls on c1/c8 or f1/f8, then the king would remain there and the piece on the nearest corner would leap to d1/d8 or e1/e8.
- Finally, if he falls on d1/d8 or e1/e8, castling would be similar to FIDE's. But in this case he could castle with the piece placed at either corner by walking two steps towards the respective piece, and then this piece leaping the king to the adjacent square; exactly as in FIDE chess happens.
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Spotted Gryphon This colorbound piece moves like a ferz and may also continue outward as a dabbabah-rider, until it captures a piece or is blocked from further leaping. It can reach all squares of the same color that a Gryphon can, with the advantage that its movement can only be blocked on those squares. See my Rose Chess page for a Chainsaw (Dragon) movement diagram.
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Thanks for the clarification regarding the spotted gryphon as having dababa-rider like properties. Would it also be possible for you to link me to the original writings of Paulowich on this subject? I've been wanting to track them down because I am myself having some designs on variants featuring spotted gryphon and pieces derived from the spottted gryphon and it would be nice to have the original source.
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White overlooked 1.Rose c1-b3-c5-e6-g5 mate. 'RandomChess' variants with powerful pieces can be tricky. EDIT: I must have been looking at the Pawn (g4) when I wrote about a White Rose checkmate. As you say, there is no check from g5. Tricky indeed!
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Is there a specific lesson to take away from this? Rarely assume that you can defend adequately (or as you may wish) against a weakened opponent unless you calculate an actual sequence of moves. In the position I cite, I lost because I failed to calculate even one move. I just ASSUMED my king could get away and was shocked to discover that it couldn't. Was my attack premature because it left behind a king that was too poorly defended?
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Parton transitions
Joe,
my initial reaction was that the transition to the Parton cell should mark the termination of the move - a strict (and restrictive?) interpretaion of the Alice rule.
Further thought has brought me round to appreciating the free-er interpretations. In fact I think I would go further, allowing an optional transition at the end of each step, provided at least one transition was made per move.
Cheers
Graeme
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The move 21. c6-e4 was legal, but there was a bug. Here is what the problem was. The code for checking whether the Queen was moving through check was checking for attacks on empty spaces instead of Queen-occupied spaces. This led to incorrect values for divergent pieces, in this case the Anglican Bishop whose non-capturing orthogonal move reached one of the spaces the Queen's move would pass over. I corrected this by moving the Queen to each step in her move before checking whether it is attacked. With the Queen on the space before determining whether any piece attacks it, I get correct values from divergent pieces. This same bug could have caused the Prince Consort to stop legal Queen moves from a distance, as David Paulowich surmised was happening, though in the case he mentioned, the move was still illegal for another reason.
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Has something happened to the Alfaerie: Grand Shatranj image set? No pictures this morning in this game - ditto some Grand/Great Shatranj games I looked at.
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Thank you.
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Pawns move one square at a time. They can and must promote to any piece of the same color from the initial setup (for example, a player can have 15 Rooks on the board). Victory conditions are the same as in Shatranj Kamil X: checkmate and most stalemates.
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
I notice that Q f5-d7 crossed a square (e6) that the Black King could move to. Perhaps the program forgot that the Black King cannot capture on that square.
But I have no idea at all why 21. c6-e4 was rejected.
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- My opponent had not made a move for over two days when the server went down
- The position is lost for black
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Each player has three colorbound pieces, which cover the entire board with no overlapping. This game design requires the White Elephants to start on ranks one and two, in order to place them on squares of opposite color from the White Ferz. If, on the other hand, the game started with Elephants on the first and tenth ranks, then the fifth rank would be dominated by White Elephants and the sixth rank by Black Elephants. That initial setup might make it more difficult for the players to advance their pawns into enemy territory - and result in more drawn games.
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Promotion is immediate, after making a normal move that ends (or begins) in the promotion zone. But piece drops do not count as normal moves. Click on the [Rules] button for more details.
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Pawn = 100, Ferz = 175, (ordinary) Elephant = 175, Knight = 300, War Elephant = 350 are my revised piece values in this game. Why bump the colorbound pieces up 25 points? The Ferz is a handy little piece, worth a solid 150 points on a 10x10 board, plus a 25 point bonus for promoting (just like the Pawn). While the Alibaba may be worth not much more than 200 points, the Elephant should be nearly as valuable in the endgame, when there are few pieces on the board. Ralph Betza once estimated the combined Alfilrider and Dabbabahrider piece as worth no more than a Knight on an 8x8 board. Instead of generating pages of pseudomathematics here, I will just list some reasons for liking these pieces:
the War Elephant can force a stalemate victory against a lone King,
while King and (ordinary) Elephant can actually draw against five War Elephants, provided they all travel on squares of the opposite color to the Elephant.
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Knight = 300, Guard = 300, Shaman = 360, Hero = 450 are my latest estimates for this 16x12 board. I am giving the three-steppers lower values than in Opulent Lemurian Shatranj, as I feel that the much larger board and multiple moves per turn cause a 'leveling out' of the piece values. The Chieftain (giving the player an extra move) is worth at least two Heroes.
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![](http://www.chessvariants.org/membergraphics/MSmidgardchess/2_pieces.gif)
This movement diagram uses hollow squares for the War Machine and X's for the War Elephant (not used in this variant). For an ASCII diagram of Rose moves on a 16x16 board, see the Rose Chess Preset.
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Sam, I don't know how players manage to accept games without giving their names - but it may not be possible for your opponent to make any further moves. After all, what password does one enter for 'nobody'?
Regarding time limits, I have been trying to convert Joe Joyce to a '411' system, allowing two weeks per move: [Timed Game?] checked [Spare Time:] 4 weeks [Grace Time:] 1 week [Extra Time:] 1 week
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Thanks for the game Carlos. I used my Omega Chess set to analyse these complicated positions. After your latest move (in time trouble), it looks like I can win a Rook with:
... Rook f4-f2 check!
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We must assume that a tournament game of Shatranj or Modern Shatranj will be following the given rules, not footnotes. I have argued in the past that any variant rules worth playing should have their own pages on this site.
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WARNING: the pieces are not set up correctly - also the second and fourth levels have the wrong colored squares. You can use my Raumschach Revised preset - eventually an editor will add a link to it on the game information page.
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Three years ago I posted Piececlopedia comments about the Cavalier and the Duke, mentioning some gryphon/aanca type pieces used by Adrian King and Mark Hedden. More recently, Gary K. Gifford has posted a 12 by 12 variant called Gryphon Aanca Chess. My own Rose Chess XII has Spotted Gryphons, limiting the number of other pieces in order to provide more 'breathing room' on the board.
Regarding Mark's comment below, the Boyscout / Crooked Bishop has been re-invented at least once. Dababbah riders are rarely seen, but the Dragon in Ca
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The Piececlopedia has a multicolor Rose movement diagram. Note that the (half-)rose in this game makes at most four hops. On a large board, the rose [O] can still move to 32 squares [x]: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 . . . . . . . . x . . . . . . . 14 . . . . . . x . . . x . . . . . 13 . . . . x . . . x . . . x . . . 12 . . . . . x . . . . . x . . . . 11 . . . x . . . x . x . . . x . . 10 . . . . . . x . . . x . . . . . 9 . . x . x . . . O . . . x . x . 8 . . . . . . x . . . x . . . . . 7 . . . x . . . x . x . . . x . . 6 . . . . . x . . . . . x . . . . 5 . . . . x . . . x . . . x . . . 4 . . . . . . x . . . x . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . x . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p
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Either player can delete any game here at any time. These (unplayed) games remind me of several Fischer Random Chess games, from years ago, which were abandoned when the players (presumably) did not like the setup they saw.
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[Userid:] joejoyce [Enter your move] i1-i1; j1-h1 works fine when I try it. I think that you have to enter both piece moves to castle. Note: O-O-O would take your King to the c-file.
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Joe does have an extra piece, which he can keep, if I correctly remember how a cannon double-pin works. EDIT: Somehow I failed to see ExN check!
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Sent move 14... d6-b8 and received the following message:
Array ( [0] => 1200671435 [1] => 1200757191 [2] => 1200839692 [3] => 1200919765 [4] => 1200947176 [5] => 1201016841 [6] => 1201033856 [7] => 1201099773 [8] => 1201101852 [9] => 1201285016 [10] => 1201352171 [11] => 1201365155 [12] => 1201395912 [13] => 1201614264 [14] => 1201649342 [15] => 1201712285 [16] => 1201735914 [17] => 1201791224 [18] => 1201871003 [19] => 1201880662 [20] => 1201883291 [21] => 1202205298 [22] => 1202246702 [23] => 1202256806 [24] => 1202300831 [25] => 1202365990 [26] => 1202428233 [27] => 1202491577 [28] => 1202564284 [29] => 1202564285 ) 30
1202564285 - 1202564284
Is 1 > 86400 + 1915200, which is 2001600.
It is not your turn to move. Please wait for your opponent to move.
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![]() | The LionThe Lion is a piece invented by Ralph Betza, which he called a Half-Duck. It has been used recently with the name 'Lion' in games by David Paulowich. This piece may leap either 2 or 3 squares horizontally or vertically, or may step a single space digonally. This piece stays on squares of the same color except when it makes the somewhat awkward (0, 3) leap. |
The ScoutThe scout may step one square horizontally or vertically, or leap exactly three squares horizontally or vertically. Also, a Scout that has not moved yet this game has the added ability to move (once) like a Knight. Like the Knight, it is forced to change the color of the square it occupies with each move. | ![]() |
Piece diagrams and descriptions taken from Greg Strong's Hubbub. The Lion is used in Unicorn Great Chess. The 'War Machine' in Rose Chess XII moves like a Scout, but without 'the added ability to move (once) like a Knight'.
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The Notes section on my Unicorn Great Chess page has a link to the preset: 'Computer Play: Fergus Duniho was kind enough to playtest this game with me in 2001 and create a PBM preset here.'
Feel free to send an invitation with 'david_64' listed as the opponent. I will start the game some time in the next two weeks.
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I have also had problems keeping that box unchecked. There is another way around this problem.
Shatranj Kamil X has promotion to a piece that is not in the initial setup. DO NOT CLICK ON THE GAME COURIER PRESET ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE! My original game preset, which has not yet been attached to this page, places extra pieces in the center of the board and then deletes them before the first move is made. So all of the pieces used in my game will show up in the pieces list. Clicking 'Edit this preset' to see [Pre-Game: @-e5; @-f5 ], reveals how I remove the extra pieces from e5 and f5.
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16... e7-d6 // kxg // well, no major blunders in this game so far... though i // think i may have been a little hasty with CxN 17. d1-e2 //KxC Well, it certainly has reduced some of the tension. // Now we get to find out if a cannon and knight are // equivalent. Enjoy.
Ralph Betza would say that the practical value of a piece is determined by the hand that holds it. This is the first such duel I have seen in a Mir Chess game. I do recall a wild position 28 moves into my game with Gary Gifford, which left me with Cannon and Elephant vs. Knight. This substantial material advantage (two pieces for the Knight) allowed me to dominate the board deep into the endgame.
http://play.chessvariants.org/pbm/play.php?game=Mir+Chess+32&log=david_64-penswift-2006-4-133
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Black's moves 6,14,15 in this game have the effect of castling his King. This prompted me to looks up some Shogi references:
http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/gnushogi/gnushogi_18.html
There is no special castling move in shogi. The term 'castle' is used in shogi to denote a defensive formation consisting of (usually) three generals which protect the king. There are many such castles (about 40 or so have names).
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Just a reminder, Uri needs to shift back and repeat move 3, allowing Black to replace his illegal move.
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die You may not capture or fuse with a piece on a fission move.;
so, yes, I think it is clear that Joe's move is not allowed, according to Fergus.
There was a contoversy in a GCT#2 Rococo game between Thomas McElmurry and Michael Madsen. Fergus decided that Peter Aronson and David Howe would get the final (and mercifully identical) say.
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Joe, I think we all agree on what Fergus meant, if not on what he said. Permit me to ramble on for a while here. Suppose a master slides the White Bishop f1-b5 in a Ruy Lopez. According to the strict 'touch-move rules' FIDE passed in the 1930s, that Bishop has touched the squares e2, d3, c4, b5 and Black has the right to pick any one of those four squares and force White to move to that square. Tournament directors had to ignore that particular rule, as many high level players continued to slide their pieces across the board. Since then, players have tended to ignore how the Bishop gets from f1 to b5. And the younger players grew up on: click f1, click b5, click SEND MOVE.
Which raises a tricky question: Are we enforcing 'touch-move rules' in this tournament? To be specific, if I attempt an illegal move, can my opponent demand that I then make a legal move with the same piece?
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As has just been posted, the rules do not permit Joe's move. Also, I ran a search with [Game Filter:] Fusion* and found an additional game (fragment) for 'Fusion Diamond 41', but that is all.
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While I am tempted to play 22... RxK, the game rules mention 'checkmate' and 'stalemate', so I have to call 22. KxR an illegal move.
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I am counting five moves for Jeremy on turn 3:
two Knight moves, two Pawn moves and O-O-O.
His 'b8-d8;' was a null move, as the b8 square was empty.
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- Sam
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Looks like every time Black attempts to capture a piece in this game, it is rejected with a 'you may not capture your own piece' statement. Needless to say, this is a major problem in the preset. You got around this problem on move 11 with:
11... d5- ;d8-d5 //qxp and you should be able to get around this problem on move 14 with:
11... d5- ;c6-d5 //pxq
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See Ralph Betza's page on Mobility, Forwardness, Distance, Colorboundness, Capture, where he writes: 'Distance: a less obvious reason for the difference in strength between the Wazir and Ferz is that the Ferz has a longer move than the Wazir. The Wazir has a move of length 1.0, the Ferz has a move of length 1.4 ( the square root of two ).'
Regarding Betza's statement, in the endgame a piece may need to move quickly from (b2) to (h8). In Midgard Chess I pointed out that this takes:
[3] moves for a War Elephant
[4] moves for a Knight or a War Machine
[6] moves for a King or a WD (Wazir+Dabbabah).
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I designed this preset with the notion that it would help me to achieve a better understanding of which might be superior, ferzes or wazirs. Greg Strong contended that because ferzes have more forward mobility, they are stronger. I guess this is what Betza may have contended somewhere (though I don't know exactly where -- can someone find that passage for me?). However, my own experimentation has suggested that actually wazirs are superior because of their ability to change colors, hence greater overall mobility.
Without pawns, the two sides draw, but with pawns, I'm not sure. I guess the right computer could solve this quickly, right?
Now your idea, Abdul-Rahman, complicates the issue considerably (in a very good way), and opens up an angle that I hadn't thought about in this context: Namely that pawns move like forward wazirs and capture like forward ferzes. In a sense, it speaks to the issue at hand, but in a very confusing way. Now it turns out that the issue of which pawn to use may be quite critical to the analysis at hand.
Eric Greenwood gave me permission to quote him but with the caveat that 'it's all theory, untested':
'Unless they capture, they're stuck on the same color square. If it's regular pawns, the ferzes might have an advantage because they can support a pawn advance more easily than the wazirs. With Berolina pawns, on the other hand, the wazirs would have the advantage, since they can both block and support a capture whereas all the ferzes can do is block.'
Eric noted that there are also advantages for both to either, but I haven't get the chance to explore the discussion with him as fully as I wanted. At any rate, I'm inspired enough to test all the permutations so thanks for the good idea.
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This preset for Falcon Chess should enforce rules and spot check,
checkmate, and stalemate.
Illegal move on turn 0:The move do is not well-formed.Go back and try again.
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I'm thinking I should add another link, a 'missing link,' in between what is currently listed .E4 and .E5, a double moving ferz (without null - rifle ability); likewise, double-moving wazir in between .D4 and .D5 and Lemurian Sliding General in between .J4 and .J5. This would lengthen the evolution to 7 for each series (.E7, .D7, .J7). If you agree this might be a good idea, would you mind if I go ahead and just subbed those things in here?
Also, building on your remark in the game, Joe, about constructed AMPs that can be deconstructed. How about a .J8 being a Precious Commoner? Would that be worth trying out?
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One way of making it slightly less chaotic is to have a rule that states: King may move only when under check. Still, it's basically a poorly designed game that needs improvement, some more powerful and interesting pieces perhaps? The entourage could use some tweaking too perhaps.
Meanwhile, I remain deeply dissatisfied with this game and I'm hopeful a much more playable game might be created. One problem with this game is that the king's entourage is so successful at overcoming the problem of the Ubi-Ubi that the Ubi-Ubi doesn't really get a chance to do much. So I'm not sure I succeeded in my initial purpose. Maybe my musings in the notes, about even more powerful pieces, might lead us somewhere down the road towards a more successful variant.
Perhaps a much weaker entourage. Maybe instead of those pieces, neutral, immobile stones that can't capture but that can be captured.
The Alice versions are under repair. There are some complicated rules that need to be sorted out. I've been confused about it for many months. I don't advise playing them.
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PS: If you're feel like it, could you simply remove the whole 'Computer Play' section from Complete Permutation Chess page?
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![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Abdul-Rahman Sibahi](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as je ju](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as je ju](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as George Duke](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
EMAIL notification for this move took 22 minutes to arrive. I had already spotted your move on Game Courier Game Logs. The internet is full of mysteries.
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
'Many presets are now programmed to update the status automatically, and for those that aren't, there are commands available for updating it from the Moves field. If you have won a game, enter won to mark your victory.'
Todor: you need to send won as your move, then this game will be recorded as over.
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as carlos carlos](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Abdul-Rahman Sibahi](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Abdul-Rahman Sibahi](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
Total Time: 11 days, 22 hours, 48 minutes, 14 seconds Remaining Time: less than zero seconds Elapsed: 13 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes, 5 seconds I just ran a search under 'fergus' and came up with the figures above. Well, I am officially confused now.
![Verified as Adrian Alvarez de la Campa](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Adrian Alvarez de la Campa](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Fergus Duniho](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Adrian Alvarez de la Campa](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Adrian Alvarez de la Campa](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as carlos carlos](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
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expression, because 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is not a recognized piece, coordinate, command, or subroutine.
For the sake of debugging, here is the full GAME Code program that this error occurred in. The lines have been properly indented to help you spot scope errors.
0 moveindex 0 1 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![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
I am just crazy enough to mix Cannons and Bisons in the same variant. And invent positions like this one:
WHITE (to move and win) King(a3), Cannon(g1), Bison (g7)
BLACK King(b1), Cannon(a1)
After 1.CxC KxC the Bison will force mate in 3 more moves: g7-d6-f3-c4. If Black fails to capture the White Cannon, then the three White pieces will eventually force checkmate.
And so the position after 1.CxC KxC also serves as an example of a forced mate in 3 by a single Falcon. In general, a pair of Falcons should be able to mate a lone King. Even a pair of Knights can force a lone King into a corner and stalemate it - but they lack the ability to force checkmate.
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
1. c2-c4
1... n b8-c6
2. c4-c5
2... n c6-e5
3. c5-c6
3... n e5-g6
4. c6-b7 // PxP
4... n i8-h6
5. b7-a8; Q-a8
I just ran this sample game to verify that Pawns promote to Queens (and presumably other pieces) in this rules enforcing preset. Clicking on the [Rules] button takes me to the 'Falcon Chess' page, where a 'Find promo' command results in several comments of a general nature and one example of a Pawn promoting to a Falcon. I am confused - in a game of 'Falcon Chess 100' between the same two players, George Duke writes:
// Right, in our 80-square FC, promotion only to RNBF,
// because R or F is interesting equal choice, depending on
// position. Here FC100 Queen promotion too if reaching that
// farther zone(Rules).
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Joe Joyce](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Andy Maxson](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Adrian Alvarez de la Campa](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Abdul-Rahman Sibahi](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
For those of you who find Shatranj Kamil as exciting as watching grass grow, I have used illegal moves to speed up the process here. First: 6 moves for White and 6 'mirror' moves for Black. Next 6 more moves for White, representing his goals for the opening phase of the game.
Points of Interest: Cannons are attacking Pawns in the initial setup, so precautions need to be taken before the Knights are moved. The Elephants on the h-file now defend the j-file Pawns. On the other side of the board ... Cannon(a10) x Pawn(a3) can be met by Elephant c4-a4, followed by Knight d4-b5. The best move for the trapped Cannon is: sacrifice itself for the Pawn(c3).
And what about that Ferz on f2? Will it serve any purpose in the game besides defending the Pawn on g3? One plan for the endgame is to move a Cannon to f1 and 'fire over the Ferz' to control 8 empty squares on the f-file. The Black King and one Elephant must stop on the f-file whenever they cross the board, which is a major headache.
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Adrian Alvarez de la Campa](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Abdul-Rahman Sibahi](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
Jeremy: please adjust your 'TenCubed Chess' preset to Sides: White Black and Side: White.
And as long as you are in the preset, I think that the dark squares would look better with Colors: FFFFFF 888888
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
Jeremy: the board looks fine now. I plan on taking at least 36 hours per move, in order to justice to this complex game. I agree with the rule allowing a King to move into check, stay in check, or be exposed to a discovered check during the sequence of moves that make up a single turn. For example, in our last game - Black King captures the White Knightrider [placing the Black King in check again] followed by Black Queen captures White Queen - would have saved the game, if only you had been allowed enough moves to clear a path for the Black Queen.
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Adrian Alvarez de la Campa](/index/verified.gif)
[edit: I read over the rules and apparently you can only make forward cannon moves]
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Abdul-Rahman Sibahi](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
Apparently this board is still set at 18 units wide (a - r). This is causing problems with the display, especially when it is Black's turn to move. I propose using these rules:
first turn 4/8 moves, progressive rules for later turns
even a single capture removes the giant ferz
even a single check endangers the giant wazir, and must be countered to avoid mate.
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as Jeremy Good](/index/verified.gif)
![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
Yes, if you can force my Queen to stop on the 11th and 12th ranks, then there is no checkmate. I took the Knightrider mate you were kind enough to point out to me and adapted it to a Knightrider support of a Queen mate. Note that my Rook (next to my King) has an important role: preventing you from playing a 1-move Knightrider mate on the 'giant square' directly in front of the Rook.
WILD GUESS at piece values: Ferz=1, Wazir=1, Guard=2, Knight=3. Clearly Knightriders and Queens are powerful attacking pieces. I think that Rooks are stronger than Bishops (no surprise there), but a solitary Ferz can race forward at a steady 2 squares per move and provide the forward line of defense we now know to be crucial in this game. Even with elongated moves, a solitary Wazir advances 2+1+1+2+1+1.
How big is the increase in value when a player forms an aggregates? Well, a Queen may be worth as much as 3 Wazirs plus 3 Knights (that can never form a Rook or a Knightrider). Bad luck for a player to get reduced to 3 of one piece.
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Turn 10 checkmate, because the White Guards on k13 and k14 can only be captured by giant pieces.
If the the Black King captures the White Queen, then 3 more moves are required to eliminate all Knight checks.
If the the Black King captures the White Knightrider, then 3 more moves are required: h13-h11; g13-h12; [Black Queen captures White Queen].
My hypothetical comments two days ago have nothing to do with this mate. Many thanks for the game!
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'Square Tiling Rider Shatranj' is a perfectly good name for the 16x16 game - it is still your variant, after all. Looking forward to a game with you - but I may wait until next week to begin. I am in a kind of opposite situation to you, with MIR CHESS 36 having started out as the simple idea of an 8x8 version of SHAKO, but my refinement MIR CHESS 32 added several original touches.
'My heart says yes, but my mind says no.' Trust your mind - note how easy it is to move an aggregate to a location adjacent to your opponent's royal piece, so any 'jump off the aggregate bus' rule would allow (part of) the royal piece to be captured in the same game turn.
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I am tempted to place a nonroyal Giant Ferz on k1, k2, l1, l2 (also k15, k16, l15, l16) and then remove the a1-a16 and b1-b16 columns from the board. This results in a 16x16 variant giving each player 14 copies of each small piece. The (NEW) a1 to p16 diagonal will be shades of blue - which matches the 'black' squares in standard 8x8 chess. The (NEW) locations of the royal giants match that in the 8x8 Shatranj setup.
I am unsure which player actually has an advantage under my proposed 4/8 moves rule. That sounds like fun!
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You asked for comments:
Your variant reminds me slightly of highly symmetric 9x9 variants, but in fact this 18x18 setup has different pieces on the the 'i' and 'j' files - and the 13th row matches the 3rd row while the 12th row matches the 4th row. This lack of symmetry seems to be a small advantage for Black. Here is a rules change to help Black some more in future games. TURN ONE: White makes exactly 4 moves and Black makes exactly 8 moves. TURN TWO: regular rules apply, with White moving up to 9 times and Black moving up to once more than White.
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This was not my intention. I would like to play you at schoolbook, but I would rather play at a much slower pace. A week for the entire game is far too fast for anyone to make the best move possible.
Is is OK if I delete this game and start another Schoolbook game with you before we play Deluxe Chess?
OK, since I normally only play slow games and you normally play fast games, I don't think I'll be able to play Deluxe Chess with you. :(
- Sam
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- Sam
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Is the middle board limbo?
*************Yes.
If a piece is captured on the middle board, I understand that it goes into reserve. How is that represented graphically?
*************It's represented as the piece that you've captured except in your own color. Put it on any gray space behind your side. I suggest putting it behind heaven (but if space runs out there, behind one of the other gray spaces.) This will become clear in the course of play, I expect. It's easier to show than describe what happens to dropped pieces.
When it's re-inserted, does it go to the far right board (i.e., is that heaven)?
*************The blue board is heaven. Yes, and re-insertion of a piece (which can only be done in heaven) counts as a move.
And what happens when a piece is captured there, or on the first board (which I'm guessing is hell)?
*************Pieces in hell disappear, as in your Heaven and Hell Chess.
*************Well, as you say, it's a work in progress and there may be some fine points that still need to be worked out. I notice in your Heaven & Hell there is a rule, 'A King that is directly above an opponent King can never be in check.' Why? Can you explain that rule to me?
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As for the question Joe asked at the end of this game, I suspect that the General is not strong enough to beat a Knight in the endgame. This seems reasonable, as the endgame K+R versus K+N is usually a draw. In fact, I cannot find a winning strategy for King and Dragon Horse versus King and Knight. I set up Zillions to play this endgame against itself on a slow setting, with no progress being made after 60 moves. That is somewhat shocking, as I consider the Dragon Horse to be worth a pair of Knights.
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One of my ideas for Templar chess is allowing the Templar to promote to a piece that moves as a Bishop plus Dabbaba-rider. This should provide incentive both to keep Templars in the game and use them more offensively. Though I have yet to test the idea.
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It appears that Betza intended a sort of Chess With Different Armies variant, with the Black pieces on their usual squares.
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[2004-10-07] comment by Roberto Lavieri on the 'Chess w/ Terrain' thread, which I bumped today. I recall reading that one victory condition was: occupy five of the seven yellow squares with your pieces.
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TACTICS: If Black plays 29...CH b2-b1(check) 30.CR d2-e1 the Chancellor will have to run away, losing a tempo. Black saw the diagonal move 30 at the last moment, because he had been thinking of the CR as a ordinary Rook. What should Black have played earlier? After 28...WR f7-f6 29.CO f4-d3 the Chancellor will still have to run away. After 28...HD e7-f6 29.CO f4-g6 Black has saved his Half-Duck from capture, but White seems to have a mating attack similar to the one that ended this game. One lesson from this game: never assume that your opponent must reply to a capture with a recapture.
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WARNING: illegal move! There was no reason to remove a square with '-g3'. Counting the 10 blue squares after Black's move 5 verifies that the correct number of removals has been made. Counting the blue squares now shows that there has been one square too many removed.
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White could have played d4-b6 (PxB) on moves 5, 6, and 7.
Black definitely should have played 8...d9-f7 (PxA).
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is the message I get when I enter move 35. I will try again later.
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Not tried in the game was: 40... a2? 41.Eb3 Rc1+ 42.Kxc1 a1(G) 43.Kc2 Nf3 44.Re6 Nxc2 45.Re1 Gb1+ 46.Rxb1 Nxb1 47.Kxb1 and Black is facing a lost endgame. Thinking about this line, I first considered moving my Rook to a6 in an attempt to win the Black General outright. But 43...Nf3 threatens 44...Ne1+ and appears to force an even trade.
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Gary, check out today's ShatranjSwapMeet Comment if you are looking for a PBM game. Yours, david_64
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leads to Michael Howe's Optima page, with both 10x10 and 9x9 variants. There are supposed to be 10 Comments, but clicking on the 'View all comments' line leads to an empty page. Also: the Query Results, Starts with the letter 'O', page does not have an Optima entry. Curious!
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Be careful what you wish for. (Cue ominous music) I direct your attention to my 'ShatranjSwapMeet' subject on the Ratings and Comments page.
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capturing pieces which are adjacent one to each other. Dont be confused.
Here is an example of legal capture:
+---+---+---+---+---+ | L | p | | * | | +---+---+---+---+---+and the pawn is captured. And an example of illegal capture:
+---+---+---+---+---+ | L | | p | p | * | +---+---+---+---+---+where the LL cannot land on the square marked by '*'.
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Joe, the moves 45. Rc1-a1 and 46. Ra1-a5 should force a draw. White's Elephant pair is very strong in the center of the board and Black has to worry about the weak Black Pawn (a7).
Christine, now you know which endgame to avoid. You needed to force a trade of the light-square Elephants early in the game - then your General could have exploited the colorboundness of the lone White Elephant. If that was not possible, you could try to trade your Elephant for two White Pawns. Good winning chances for Black - also some losing chances(!)
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Greg's second move (2. Lxf5) is not check, since the Black Queen is not attacked.
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You start a game of Pairwise Drop Chess by choosing one of five pairs: RR, NN, BB, KQ, AM and placing the two pieces on your first rank. Bishops must be placed on opposite color squares. Each player must also copy the opponent's drops, placing pieces on the same files. This process uses up the first three moves of the game.
Each king may 'free castle' once in the game with either the nearest rook on its left side or the nearest rook on its right side. This variant idea comes from the Kibitzer article 'Bring Back Free Castling!' by Tim Harding. A Pawn promotes on the last rank to a Marshal/Chancellor, Queen, or Archbishop/Cardinal of the same color. Nothing else.
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After 11... Kd6 12. Ac5+ Kc6 13. Ma5+ Kd5 14. Nc3 checkmate
all the active White pieces are on dark squares. This is the secret to bypassing Black's strong grip on the light squares. A similar mating attack also works against 10... d7-d6. The position after 10. Af5 is extremely complicated - I had a reply to 10... Md6, but I forget what it was! Certainly not 11. Axi8? Bh7! 12. Axh7 Axh7 and Black still has a small material advantage.
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This variant expands on an idea from the Kibitzer article 'Bring Back Free Castling!' by Tim Harding. A king may free castle with either the nearest rook on its left side or the nearest rook on its right side. When the players drop the kings on the a-file and the rooks on the b-file and i-file, for example, the only possible castling move is switching the king and the b-file rook. The 'outside rook' can never take part in castling. This rule could even be used in variants with more than two rooks for eack player.
More often the rooks will be on opposite sides of the kings. Suppose White has K(c1), R(a1), R(j1) and none of these pieces have yet moved in the game. Let Black have K(e3) and Q(e4). White to move can free castle only by moving the king to d1, e1, f1, or g1. Since the Black queen attacks h1, the king can neither end its move on h1 nor pass through that square to i1 or j1. The rook on j1 can move in free castling to c1 or to any other square between c1 and the one the king ended its move on.
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Choose one of five pairs: RR, NN, BB, KQ, AM
and place the two pieces on your first rank. Bishops must be placed on opposite color squares. Each player must also copy the opponent's drops, placing pieces on the same files. This process will take three game moves for each side.
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Why sacrifice a Pawn on the first move? It all comes down to search depth. In some lines the White Unicorn can capture the Rook on i8, but it will be trapped after ... Knight j7-h6. These lines may register as 'false victories' in computer analysis.
Running Zillions-Zillions test games at 3 minutes per moves can be extremely effective, but it it cannot rescue a game from human error. After Zillions came up with 8. Bishop e2 - j7, Pawn h6 x i5 9. Bishop j7 x i8, Knight f7 - h6 it was clear that I had tied myself up in knots trying to hang onto the extra Pawn. I chose to capture the Bishop and gamble on my opponent missing the best continuation, a strategy which has served me well over the years. Not this time! Congratulatons to ChessV and its creator.
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![Verified as David Paulowich](/index/verified.gif)
In this second game of Lions and Unicorns Chess, White is ChessV and Black is ZPaulowich (a combination of me and Zillions 1.3.1). The Unicorn moves like a Bishop or a Nightrider, while 'Lion' is another name for Ralph Betza's 'Half-Duck'.
My three games on this site are using an obsolete email account that expires on October 31. I don't even have an email program on my primary computer and hope to continue playing in November without this emailing moves feature.
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After 36. Pawn j2 - j4 Black could try 36... Unicorn c8 - a4 check Running Zillions at 3 min. on a 533 MHz machine gives: 37. King d1 - c1, Unicorn a4 - c6 38. Queen j1 - j2 check, King c9 - c10 39. Queen j2 - j3 check, King c10 - b10 40. Unicorn f9 - c3, Rook i10 - f10 41. Rook e1 - e5, Rook e10 - e8
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