[ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]
Comments/Ratings for a Single Item
The first capture of their website by archive.org is dated August 18 2008, but comments here go back to 2006.
Is there a way to know when this page was written?
The introduction says "An upcoming commercial chess variant with collectible, tradable pieces", but some comments are more than 10 years old.
I can't find a publication date for this variant. (If it's there but I overlooked it please forgive me).
I have watched a game being played Navia Dratp, at anime convention.
Gary Gifford recently refers to Navia Dratp 17.April.2008 as ''truly fantastic variant.'' Let's keep this one in mind when comparing, categorizing and cataloguing CVs. Two-player N.D. is 7x7 of 49 squares. I strongly agree with Joyce of Short-Range having bias against over-strong pieces like Marshall(RN) and Cardinal(BN) that can ruin things; and there may be none of those here. How many piece-types, represented in ''figurines to be numbered in the hundreds,'' and in cards too it says under ''Pieces,'' are there to be in Navia Dratp, or are there already by now? Article cites ''anime/manga-styled gods, angels, demons, faeries and some comical critters as well.''
There are well over 100 Comments 2004 to 2006, a discussion I for one had to ignore -- and none at all directly this 2008 -- so several enthusiasts may be expert to enlighten on the benefits of Navia Dratp. Or is it trade secret requiring purchase that must be tred lightly like Seirawan's or Trice's? If there are many piece-types as suggested, is the model for design the large Shogis, such as old Taikyoku Shogi with over 100 promotees alone? Or Adrian King's Typhoon (1999) having 75 piece-types imitating large Shogis as short-range? Any updates of substance on Navia Drapt?
We have a lot of information on the game available at www.naviadratp.net, including piece listings, forums, and rules. Come on over!
BoardGameGeek.com has some useful info, some brought over from the Navia Dratp Enthusiasts Yahoo group, like an easy-to-read copy of the rules with FAQ. I don't suppose there's any reason to repeat those here, unless someone has an improved version. There are many obscure combinations of the rules which we now know will never be officially ruled on, many of which will never happen (but could), like my favorite: a ring of three Kanabas confining each other! I think the game has to be respected in its entirety as an artistic concept, even though the names and forms of the playing elements may seem arbitrary to some. Most of the 'ugliness' of the pieces owes to the fact that most of them come unpainted. See the game Dreamblade for how to do it right (but it's still a collectible game, unfortunately).
It looks like Bandai's website for this game is defunct, and most other online information refers people to the Bandai website for the complete rules. Perhaps we should add descriptions of all the pieces here?
This is the link to the announcement that bandai is abandoning Navia Dratp. New development is on hold indefinitely as is official sanctioned tournaments.
I agree with the previous Navia Dratp comment, except for the last line, i.e., I doubt that it will become a standard. I also have the feeling that it will not gain a large following, for instance, when compared to Chess and Magic the Gathering. Time may prove me wrong.
In a few days I get to play Navia Dratp via e-mail against a chess master who had also won the Grand Chess Correspondance World Championship a few years back. Though I expect to get clobbered, I do think that it will be a blast of a game. First phase: take turns picking our 7 warriors from a pool of 29 first edition pieces.
I recently started playing ND, and I don't think there will be an end to the games. I have yet to encounter the same strategy twice. This helps to keep the game more interesting. The pieces are very well done, the mechanics are well put together, and having the different pieces allows for a greater array of playing styles. I think that the names do add to the 'atmosphere' of the game. They help me to get into the game more as the Navia Commander. The economics are also a fantastic way to make you think about every move that much more. You want to be sure that you are either not giving your opponent a free oppertunity to earn Gyullas while earning as many as you can at the same time. I believe that in the coming future ND will become a standard for fantasy CVs.
MT: Energy crystals, money, what's the difference. Gary G response: Crystals set up for a magic atmosphere. Also, I cannot use crystals to buy things in the U.S. MT: While I agree that dratping isn't exactly the same as promoting, the concept is close enough. Gary G response: Dratping is a more precise term for the game being discussed. MT: ... coining a new word that's unrelated to anything in the language -- AND is either almost-unpronouncable or has a silent letter, what's with that? Gary G response: Dratp (pronounced 'Drap', not too difficult) How do we ever get new words? Silent letters- gee whiz, are we to throw out much of the English language. Look at words like giraffe (crazy 'g') and phone (ph acting like 'f') etc. MT: Silent letters are vestiges of pronunciations from earlier times, what's the point of including one in a new coinage? Gary G response: It is for a new game with a mysterious atmoshphere. But if we want to keep asking 'why' we can hit a virtual brick wall fairly quick. I am learning Russian, I can call a cat a kooshka, and I can say dobrahdeen and dosvidawnya... but why? Because others know these words and I can learn them and want to... but I don't have to. Dratping is another word to my vocabulary. Navia Dratp players understand it. It is not that hard. Why make a big deal of this game's language? MT: My aesthetic preferences are admittedly my own, and though I feel I have good reasons behind them, I don't expect everyone else to share them. These things depend on individual judgment, sentiment, and taste. As I've already said, it's a fine game. Gary G response: I am glad you think it is a fine game. I do too. As far as the game's linguistic aspect, I don't know why some people want to keep complaining about it.
Energy crystals, money, what's the difference. It's stuff you earn by doing something and pay out to get privileges: by me that's money. And while I agree that dratping isn't exactly the same as promoting, the concept is close enough. A space elevator isn't exactly an elevator, but calling it that makes the idea clearer than coining a new word that's unrelated to anything in the language -- AND is either almost-unpronouncable or has a silent letter, what's with that? Silent letters are vestiges of pronunciations from earlier times, what's the point of including one in a new coinage? My aesthetic preferences are admittedly my own, and though I feel I have good reasons behind them, I don't expect everyone else to share them. These things depend on individual judgment, sentiment, and taste. As I've already said, it's a fine game.
In response to my brief question [which was from a larger context) 'Is Lord Kiggoshi such a terrible name?' Mark Thompson replied: 'No, Kiggoshi does sound Japanese. But Chugyullas, Coydrocomp, Nebguard? --- Gary G response: What about Cyclops, Hydra, Medusa from stories of old? Were these not strange names that we've simply gotten used to? Should I rename Medusa Shogi to Snake-Haired Lady Drop Chess? Mark asked: Gyullas (to mean simply Money)? --- Gary G response: Gyullas are energy crystals. They are not money. Mark asked: Dratp (to mean simply Promote)? ---- Gary G response: Dratping a piece can increase or decrease a piece's movement. It can also result in that piece leaving the board, depending on the Dratp effect, or in earning more Gyullas (money if you prefer-but they are not money), or in bringing another piece into the battle... etc. So, I prefer Dratp to the word promote. Though Dratping is certainly related to promoting... it is more intense and requires an expenditure of Gyullas (crystals). In fact, the Navia Dratp (costing 60 Gyullas) instatly wins the game for the person making that Drapt. And that is how I lost my first game of ND.
Someone wrote:
I cannot help the fact that I am not a member.
You do have the option of following this link and becoming a registered user, which has all the same benefits as being a member.
'Is Lord Kiggoshi such a terrible name?' No, Kiggoshi does sound Japanese. But Chugyullas, Coydrocomp, Nebguard? Gyullas (to mean simply Money)? Dratp (to mean simply Promote)? As you say, we have different tastes. And the names don't spoil the game for me, because when I'm playing I don't think about them.
Regarding the 'booster pack' concept. As Michael stated, '. . . it means you don't know what you're buying before you buy it.' Well, 2 points here: (1) you don't need booster packs. (2) You can buy pieces individually. I bought 4 extra pieces to allow for greater game variety. I saw them on the internet and knew the exact piece I was getting. $1.50 to $2 is not unreasonable to me for these. In regard to 'fantasy-like piece and action names aestheically unpleasing, ... ' As well as Mark Thompson's comment, '.. as far as the aesthetics of the game are concerned, I'm completely with Michael Howe. The forms of the pieces are repulsive, the bizarre names for everything (including the game itself) pointlessly ugly.' Well, we have different tastes. I find the actual pieces and the many Japanese or otherwise bizarre sounding names interesting. My family (fairly mainstream) from the wife, 18 year old, 15, 9, and 6 year old all like the pieces. The pieces set the mood (the atmosphere) for the game. Is Lord Kiggoshi such a terrible name? Are Rook and Bishop better? As Shakespeare wrote, 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.' I had my second game of Navia Dratp tonight, again with my 15 year old son. I won that game, but only by one tempo. It was a game with lots of strategy, and many tactical shots. It was fun. For those who don't like the pieces, I can understand that, as I certainy had strong dislike for original Smess pieces and the board. This is simular situation. But as I pointed out in an earlier comment, you could make the ND movement grids, glue the Drapt and non-Dratp sides to checkers and ignore piece names. To me that would destroy the atmoshpere of this game. But you could do it and play the game that way. And use pennies, nickles and dimes instead of crystals. As for me, I do not mind bringing Lord Kiggoshi or Tiny Kiggoshi onto the battlefield. Their images and their names don't bother me in the least... nor do the names and images of the other characters. In regard to 'repulsive, bizarre,' to me that seems to fit the world-wide news far better than it does ND.
As far as the aesthetics of the game are concerned, I'm completely with Michael Howe. The forms of the pieces are repulsive, the bizarre names for everything (including the game itself) pointlessly ugly. But I've played at least half a dozen games, and the game itself is very good. I can hardly wait for the copyright to run out, so I can create an isomorphic game with sensible, euphonic names and pleasant-looking pieces. WHY does anyone create ugliness when beauty is within easy reach? I suppose I could make my own version even now, but they deserve to make money on their invention from people like me as long as they're trying to, so eventually I'll probably buy their equipment. But not without gnashing my teeth.
>It's not completely reliable, of course, and I didn't say that ND is a poor game... You did, in fact, say that ND was a poor game with your rating of 'Poor'. It is one thing to rate a page poor when one has not played the game described within if the instructions are unclear. But that is not true in this case. I do not claim that ND is a perfect game. But neither is any other chess variant here, and thus if rating games in relation to other games here seems illogical. I am sorry if this comment or the previous one seemed hostile. But I cannot help the fact that I am not a member.
I just wanted to verify that it was not me who made the comment Michael Howe ojected to. In fact, at first I thought the comment was criticising me for not actually having played the game (only having looked at the ND games of others). Anyway, the UPS delivered it a few hours ago and I was impressed with the size and detail of the pieces. Even the wife was impressed... and she's not a gamer. My 15 year-old son challenged me to a game while I was setting up the board and, though I tried to win, I lost due to that economic crystal factor (my Masters Degree In Business Administration and my paper on Gaming Theory failed to help me). Now, understand that my son has never come close to beating me at chess and I give him 1-Rook-odds and there is a $10 reward for when he does win. But, with Navia Drapt I had no handicap for him and no reward (good thing) because I saw his eyes light up and he became full of excitement as he saw the winning plan. This does not proove it is a good game. However, it does proove to my son and me, that it is a fun game and that one can not win by chess-like strategy alone. And I assure you, he did win by a solid game plan, not luck. I look forward to the next game...
> ...and play the many excellent and free chess variants found on these pages, many of which are better games than Navia anyway. I find it sad that you claim to know how good of a game a game is when you haven't yet tried it.
Once you have the 2 Navia Dratp starters (that you can acquire for about $30 ($14.98 per individual set)from a few on-line game stores) you can play Navia Dratp over-the-board. At the beginning of a game you and your opponent can take turns drawing pieces from the lot... or, you can pick your starting army at random. This should take care of the 'power paranoia' aspect of the game. There is no need to buy expansion pieces, none at all. The extra pieces just allow for more variety in strategy and tactics. They also allow for someone to collect figures and possibly paint them (as a hobby, if one desires). As for the artistic aspect, 'Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.' In regard to being able to play over games, I drew a 7x7 board in MS paint. Then I drew the movement patterns (available at www.naviadratp.com under 'piece list). I then cut and relocated the MS Paint pieces. This was how I played over the Chess Master's game 3 times. But you could also put the movement disks on checkers (having a Dratp and non-Dratp side) and use a real board. In regard to the Navi Dratp naming convention, yes, they are a bit strange in some cases, sounding like ancient Japanese Warriors or ancient mythical creatures, but as in the one Wings song, 'What's wrong with that, I'd like to know.'
I was introduced to Navia Dratp recently by Chess Master John Vehre, who speaks highly of the game. I have since played over one of Mr. Vehre's tournament ND games 3 times and a few games of others. These games convinced me that Navia Dratp is a great game. I also see each piece as a small work of art. As for the cost... I was able to order the two starters from a gaming company for $14.98 each (that is not close to the $60 mentioned in another comment, though I did see them listed at that high price elsewhere). Unlike most strategy games, this one allows for an astronomical number of opening scenarios. To play a game well one must consider piece play and economics (of a crystal wealth factor which changes with moves, captures, and promotions (Dratps). My sets (and a few individual pieces I ordered separately) are scheduled to arrive tomorrow and I look very much forward to them. My Shogi opponent at work and I will be giving Navia Dratp some serious game play.
What Tim says is true. Since the time that I wrote the article for this web page, Navia Dratp continues to be one of my favorite board games ever, which I play all the time. The Resurgence expansion really rounded out what it needed. I had no problem getting all the pieces by buying them ala carte from internet sellers, so I didn't waste money waiting for the luck of the draw to give me everything from booster packs. It's true that it's pricy, but I happen to like the miniatures as pieces of art. I recommend that you try the virtual online Navia Dratp which is available on the mailing list.
It's too expensive for me too -- although my brother and I would love to get into it. I guess we'll have to wait for a video game release. ;)
After a year or more of obscurity, Navia Dratp is starting to finally take off. The new 'Resurgence' set was released in fall, 2005, bringing the total number of figures to 50. The new figures are not only totally playable, but have made the metagame extremely challenging as well. There is now a piece which can drain your opponent's gyullas, and also a 'super-queen' that can move and jump in any direction (although it is expensive to bring out). There's no doubt that ND's popularity was adversely affected by the miniatures game glut of the past 4 years. Many gamers had looked at the game before and decided that it was 'one game too many to spend my money on'. But where other games continue to expand beyond their enthusiasts' ability to keep up with the ever-growing number of figures, ND remains a small, balanced, and well-thought-out game. Our local game store has begun running weekend tournaments, and the number of participants has been growing steadily each week. If you haven't tried playing yet, there has never been a better time to start.
This game is absolutely, unbelievably incredible. A lot of the various chess variants seem too esoteric to pay much attention to, but Navia Dratp at least has a nationwide marketing push and relatively wide store availablity. With a little grassroots effort, you could pretty easily expect to be able to walk into a game store on a weekend and find a game. But here's the important part - the game is GOOD. The game is easy to learn but the strategy is intense and very deep. Unlike most collectible games, the luck factor only factors in when you purchase boosters; the gameplay itself is completely strategic. New players will find themselves at a significant disadvantage until they learn the mechanics and piece interaction. I don't particularly care for chess, but I am absolutely in love with Navia Dratp. Everyone here needs to go out and get it, no exceptions. Don't let this one slip by.
I love the idea of a four hand Navia Dratp game. I hadn't put much thought into the idea, but had the seed planted soon after playing a few games. I think I'd design the board differently, but I like your idea of capturing three Navias and allowing the opponent whose Navia was captured to remain in play. Thanks for a fun website!
This seem simular to Vantage Master.Consider the following: They both have absurd names. They both start with no pieces but the 'Kings' on the board and add more later. They both have special cells on which you get more energy to summon the aforementioned pieces. They both involve collecting.
After I found this game last week, I can't stop playing it. However, there are a problem happening when I play with my friends. It's a moving (compass) problem. Like Hansa, no 023 (http://www.naviadratp.com/char/m_hansa.html), before Dratp can he 'Jump' over one piece (either mine or oppenent's) and land on the second space? Also Troll , No-001 , we also have an argument after she dratps. Can anyone please help this kind 'blocking problem'?
The crystals are called gyullahs, and gold ones are worth 20, not 30. Also the pawns are called gulleds.
I just found out about this game yesterday, and looked at the main website. It has everything you'd need to play, including the abilities of every piece, except that it doesn't mention which pieces are Navia Guards. I found another site that lists all the pieces in the starters, so I know that Troll (M-001) and Olip (M-008) are Guards, but are any of M-015 through M-029 also Guards?
<p>I don't have IM, but I'd love to play by email, or maybe on Vassal (I think I'd prefer email though). Contact me at [email protected] if you're interested. I don't own any pieces yet, but I've already picked out a 'dream team' that I'd like to try.
The Navia Dratp website is now live... each piece is listed with a background and remarks if needed for gameplay: http://www.naviadratp.com
I usually leave my login going in the Tori Shogi room on the Vassalengine server, but sometimes I forget to turn it off when I sleep or leave home. Sorry for any confusion that might have caused. Let's face it, we are never going to find each other by accident. We need to either schedule a time or exchange instant message handles. My handle on all the main IM services is nemorathwald. Feel free to message me to set up a game!
Anyone even go to vassal? I've gone on and there are rarely people on, and I'm rather disappointed because I want to play some Navia. Matt Arnold, your name is always up on shogi, are you really on all the time? If anyone is into playing Navia on the vassal engine, let me know when you are ususally on. Otherwise I'm even willing to play over an IM using chess notation or something.
on 20040826 it is now uncomplete. I am searching for the movements of the other pieces
For those outside of the U.S. and still trying to acquire Navia Dratp feel free to drop me an e-mail. I know of a seller that ships internationally and may very well be able to help you out as long as supplies of the game last here. They charge very near actual shipping costs from the U.S. to most international destinations. I've heard this game has become quite the hot product following the Gen Con Indy convention this past weekend. [email protected]
Reminder: there is now a Yahoo group to discuss this game, and much more: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/navia_dratp_enthusiasts/
Mid august has come and gone and still there's hardly any info on this game available. The official website is still 'coming soon'. I'm disappointed. I was really looking forward to it though ..... I doubt the game will be available any time soon in Belgium.
Jeremy, thanks for the offer! Since mine are due very soon, and I won't be able to do anything until then (turning in for the night), it may not be worth the time and trouble to e-mail back and forth. Should there be another delay though (over the weekend grrrr) I'll certainly take you up on your offer. I'm looking forward to playing myself, due to the absence of any local gamers (at the only local gamestore they still think ND is something new shown for the first time at the GenCon...)
Robert, Thanks for the pics. The paintjobs leave room for improvement, like the Navias, but they are certainly pretty good for (sort of) mass-produced minis. It will be interesting to see to what extent they can be improved upon by painting spares of the 'regular' version myself (and others who have announced interest in doing so) A folder for pictures of those has already been set up at the Yahoo group... As for easy to collect, at one per box (of 12), that would _still_ be a rather expensive endeavour :| , not counting the chances of getting a double in the minimum of 29 boxes required ;) I think I'll forget about getting a complete set of those... P. (I may post a summary of this discussion at the Yahoo group, since at least one new member has shown up asking about a figure list and such)
PL, I have joined your Yahoo group and uploaded my pictures in an album called Painted Maseitai - Navia Dratp.
Jeremy, both the painted Maseitai and the booster Navia seem to appear 1 in every 12 boosters. Navia Dratp come in a case of 12 booster. If you buy a full case you should expect to get 1 painted Maseitai, 1 rare Navia (N-003 or N-004), and nearly two complete sets of the unpainted Maseitai numbered 15-29. The small set of figures are not all that collectible (or some would say they are very easy to collect) with only 33 pieces, but compare this to other miniature sets that may have only 20 to 30 different mini sculptures yet have 80 to 120 different pieces to collect. This set has 33 *different* high quality sculptures, and the 33 pieces is more than enough to add enough variety to this game. Still from a collectors standpoint I'd love to see future expansions.
P_L, I already have scans of the board if you want it. Like I said I was doing it in flash. If you want me to take pics let me know. I can also scan. Really, anything you want help on, let me know. Anxious to play online.
Hi Jeremy, I managed to get the main structure of the game finished, but the most time-consuming part will be a couple of board element scans and especially taking digipics of the pieces, since I will finally receive my own set tomorrow. Unfortunately, I'll have a couple of really busy days ahead of me, but depending how things go, I might get around to it by Sunday, so perhaps in the evening, otherwise it'll be maybe a couple of days later at most. As far as trading goes, you might try the Yahoo group I set up, maybe the few members so far will be interested in trading directly too, and hopefully trustworthy enough. I admit that personally I have little experience in the matter, but would think that trading one for one any piece of the same rarity as per Bandai's list (?) should be fairly straightforward... P.
P_L, what is your approx. time for haveing the online version done? Do you need any help? I'm a graphic designer by profession, so if you need anything, like graphics or scanning...anything, let me know. These are the figures that I have after 2 starters and 6 boosters. N-1, 2, 4 M-1 through 14, M-16, M-17x2, M-18x2, M-19 through 22 M-24, M-25x2, M-26 through 28, M-29x2 I also have a slight problem with ND now. Its not major, just annoying. I bought six boosters and I didn't get a single patined figure other than a Navia. What is the rare distribution? Second, and this is good to me, I don't see this game as very collectible. I almost have the entire set. I am short 3 total with 1 of those being a Navia, which I could care less about. And since you can't duplicate unless one of those is a rare painted, there is really no other figure I need or want. As long as you get one, which you can probably pick up on ebay now for like 2-5 bucks. Ebay will eliminate buying boosters for me now. After buying the boosters this first time, and seeing a few figs that I won't use, I'll just buy the ones I want on ebay. I think the cost of keeping up with this game will be very low considering how many actual figures there will be in each set. This starting one only has like 33 total pieces - very low count. An there are a few that I wouldn't mind getting rid of.
Announcement: Creation of a Yahoo group for people interested in Navia Dratp http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/navia_dratp_enthusiasts/ I guess I have too much time on my hands ;) One thing I want to be clear about is that I don't mean that group to be in some sort of competition with this one, and I think this one will perhaps remain a little more mature, especially if ND should ever really catch on. However, the _free_ benefits of the NDE Yahoo group are, as with every group there: the searchable archive, the free file storage area (which I set up to include a folder for peoples' tradelists), picture gallery (for, among others, their own custom paintjobs people have talked about here) etc. It should be a nice complement to this one. I also uploaded my Tori Shogi adaptation, which is more easily accessible since membership is open for now (unlike the Vassalengine group) If nothing else, it will allow you to test the Vassalengine/Java setup on your machine if you are interested in trying out the ND adaptation I plan on releasing in the future. P.
Much appreciated, Robert! As announced in my other post, I finally started my first Yahoo group, in a surge of, erm, enthusiasm (bad pun, you'll see). Like all groups, it includes also a gallery, and I already created an album for people to put pictures of their rare captures in ;) If you're up to it, you can upload them there (it's easy to register, for now I have left membership open) P.
P_L, I found both the Yeti and the Monster of Loch Ness, and oddly enough they were hiding in my Navia Dratp booster packs. I took some time out to attempt to take a few photos (at least the best I could take) of some of the Navia Dratp, Bandai painted chase playing pieces I have. I have sent them to both the graphics e-mail address for chessvariants and Matt Arnold. Hopefully one or the other will have a chance to possibly post them for you.
The 'official' painted pieces from Bandai are chase figures found only in the Navia Dratp booster packs, and seem to only include Maseitai numbered 1-14 (at least I haven't seen any above this number). At Origins a staff member at the Bandai booth told me that these painted figures would be found only in the booster packs and when building your team you could not duplicate the same figure within your team, with the exception of using one unpainted figure and another of the rare, chase, painted figures found in booster packs. The starter packs never have the painted Maseitai, only painted Navia (though some of the better unpainted Maseitai are found only in the starter packs). Navia are always painted and can never be duplicated within a team. The starters have Navia N-001 & N-002, while the booster packs are the only place to find Navia N-003 IO & N-004 Krra. Hope this helps.
From what I've gathered (esp. if it's true that the manual distinguishes between painted and unpainted Maseitais), they probably include some '(ultra)rare' painted Maseitais in the booster packs? I wouldn't be suprised, since this IS a _Collectible_ Miniatures Game, after all. I would certainly love to see a picture posted, if anyone here has gotten one in their packs!? Maybe though those are in league with the Yeti and the Monster of Loch Ness ;) As for custom painting doubles, I'm definetely looking forward to that, I used to enjoy it, but have never been able to keep up with huge number of paintjobs needed for a certain company's game... at least that won't be a problem in the foreseeable future with ND :) P.
I bought both starter sets, and you're right about one thing, all the pieces in both of them are labeled 52604. It will be interesting to see what these numbers can tell us. What do you mean about officially painted pieces? Are you saying your starter set came with painted pieces? The only painted ones I got were the Navias. What about the booster packs? They don't come painted, or do they?
Jeremy, I plan on painting a few of my unpainted Maseitai pieces too (for home play use), though I plan on using alternate colors than the *official* painted versions so that I can still tell them apart. The 'official' rare, painted Maseitai I would believe are the only pieces legal to be doubled up (paired with an unpainted version) in your team. It doesn't seem like there is any special marking to differentiate the offically painted pieces versus the unpainted pieces, but there is an ID number on every figure that seems like it can be used for this purpose. So far the only 'official' painted playing pieces I have seen are the 14 Maseitai from the starter sets. Starter set pieces seem to have a different set of ID numbers (52604), than the boosters (21704, 41704, 61704). Since unpainted Maseitai numbered 1-14 are not found in the boosters, the rare, 'officially' painted Maseitai from Bandai will have the set of ID numbers from booster pack pieces only. Has anyone found Navia Dratp playing pieces with other ID numbers than the ones I listed above? It would be nice to have a list of which ID numbers occur in which formats (starter or booster packs) to help confirm if pieces are officially painted by Bandai or painted by another player or collector.
The cards are strictly for reference, and are not a play element. Personally, I came up with the idea of using them for a play element in my 4-player Navia Dratp variant (available on this website, chessvariants.com). But that is certainly not official and hasn't even been playtested yet.
Hi Jeremy, I'm already working on a full-fledged online/play-by-email adaptation for Navia Drapt, using the Vassal engine (www.vassalengine.org, also vassalengine at Yahoo Groups), as previously announced on this group. Thanks to the work that went into designing and building my Tori Shogi adaptation (the japanese chess variant ND seems to be most closely related to, and available in the file section of the vassalengine group), it's coming along nicely, and should be available soon. One concern is obviously whether or not Bandai would tolerate any such adaptation. Generally the guidelines at the vassalengine group (which has been used to adapt a number of miniature/board/wargames for quite a while now) is that as long as there is no official online version, and you make it clear that it is only for existing owners of the 'real' game, and non-profit, it may sneak by. Also they also generally only include the materials strictly necessary for actual play, and not any reference material, which you are supposed to own in physical form anyway. Which leads to my question regarding the cards: as I understand it (my set should arrive any day now, thanks to the *$#%& online store I unfortunately ordered it from): the Cards are only used for reference (about the special powers), but not as actual in-Game play element? Is that correct? Of course anybody is welcome to chime in on the above matters. (P.S.: I'm aware that in order to access the Beta vassalengine modules at the Yahoo group requires registration as member, and I will try to find a less cumbersome solution when the ND module is ready)
Hello Everyone! Not sure who this is going to. But I am also into Navia
Dratp....already bought 2 starters and 6 boosters...I thought that the
amount of Maseitai would be a lot higher. In actuality, I am only 3 short
of the entire set, with only 2 or 3 doubles. One of the missing is one of
the Navia.
<p>
I have read of the concerns of team building and here are my thoughts...I
don't really think there need to be any more rules. That is because you
cannot have doubles unless one of them is a rare painted version and the
other is grey (which is wierd, because I plan on painting mine). So the
most you could have of any one Maseitai would be 2. And so far, I haven't
seen anything that I would necessarily want to of.
<p>
I have already played a few games, and there are a couple of peices which
have good abilities, but the cost to use them are too high. Such as Lord
Kiggoshi. No way am I spending 25 to get to use his ability, and I usually
never had that many Gyullas to do it. Even at half cost, its too high. So a
light cost team with one or 2 at most heavy hitters seems the best.
<p>
Next, concerning check, from the rules, I do get that you have to announce
it, plus a Navia can't dratp if it is in check.
<p>
All in all I think ND is a great game. I think the peices SO FAR are very
balanced. no one piece will win you the game and no one combo will either.
Like Matt said, he won with hardly any pieces, just by having the right
number of gyullas. Smart bomb does you no good if you don't have the
cash, and if you ignore your Gulled you will lose control of the center
just like in chess. Plus if try and save just for that effect, your
opponent will have to much of an advantage on you with lighter pieces. You
will notice the better the effect, the worse the movent range. You have to
get the peices there to use them.
<p>
Lastly, I am working on a flash projector that people can use to play
online if anyone is interested. You'll need an IM to message moves, but
the peices for both sides will be moveable, as well as Gyullas and the
cards of all the pieces. Let me know if you are interested. Email me with
Navia Dratp in subject line at:
<p>
[email protected]<br>
Visit my site to at www.jc-designs.net or www.jc-designs.net in near
future for my band's music
Robert, yes, he can take the Navia and win the game. ND is based not on Chess, but on Shogi. Chess has a rule against any move that moves or exposes one's King check, but Shogi explicitly does not! Therefore, the form of draw in which the King has no legal move, does not take place in Shogi, because it's a game in which you kill the Jewelled General, not just checkmate him. As I read the rules of Navia Dratp I looked for rules about moving into check, and since there weren't any, I believe ND has this in common with Shogi.
7.) Chess/Check question: In Chess, if by moving a piece (other than your King) you leave your King open to be taken next turn, does your opponent need to announce that that move would cause checkmate, or can your opponent simply take your King to win the game next turn? Because of a lack of rules concerning the check Navia Dratp I'd like to simply be consistance with the Chess check/checkmate rules. The scenario I had in mind is where there are three pieces all in the same column. My King (Navia) was on its end line with the dratp Nebguard (forward Bishop) one space in front of my Navia. Three spaces in front of my Nebguard/Bishop was my opponents dratp Agunilyos (Queen). If the Nebguard/Bishop moves away diagonally and exposes the King/Navia can the Agunilyos/Queen simply take the King/Navia for the win?
Matt, my name is Robert Pedroza, now Tek34 on this board. I entered my name in my previous post, but it must have been lost in the validation process. I agree with you on #6. I just finished a long game won by Navia Goal. I didn't think the Navia Goal win was too likely a scenario, but in long game with few pieces remaining it becomes much more viable. I didn't have enough gyullas or fire power left to eventually dratp my navia, so I slowly sneaked my Navia forward until I was two moves away from the end line. At that point even the dratped Agunilyos (moves like a Queen) couldn't position itself to stop the end line run.
Thanks. Who are you, if you don't mind? I agree on #1, that's how I've been playing it, otherwise it would be crazy. Regarding #6, any dratp effect such as Gundrill or Olip that carries other pieces is a move done BY the dratping piece, ON the carried piece(s). I believe the carried piece is passively having something done to it, so it definitely may not dratp in my opinion. I almost hate to admit this, but sometimes fairy princesses kick monster butt. Yesterday, my brother had my back to the wall playing ND, all I had left was Navia + Pawn. He had several impressive warriors and I almost conceded. But he didn't notice I collected all the currency in the game. He was going to checkmate me on the next move, when I paid everything to invoke Navia Dratp and that was that. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, I guess. These four huge juggernauts surrounded a fairy princess and she blew them away in a single stroke... it was rich, I tell you. I love a game that's full of surprises without resorting to dice.
1.) Ans: I believe it does un-dratp and I have been playing it that way. Otherwise any Maseitai that goes to the graveyard a sacrifice ability, like Tiny Kiggoshi would not be able to return without immedately returning to the graveyard. At my demo at Origins the example I was shown of returning a Maseitai from the graveyard was with Tiny Kiggoshi, who later drapted again and used his ability again. 1b.) Another related question is when Koma uses sealing to return a Maseitai to the keep/seal, does the returned piece lose its drapt? 4. Can a Maseitai ever un-Dratp? Ans: No, unless another Maseitai's ability allows this. Nemchant upon dratping does un-dratp all the other playing pieces on the board. 5. Can a Maseitai perform a line-over? Ans: No. The rule book only has rules concerning gulled and Navia pieces. 5b.) When a red Gulled performs a line over does it get the 3 gyullas movement bonus (in addition to the 10 gyullas or Maseitai returning from the graveyard)? More questions: 6.)If you use Gundrill's invoked ability (4 gyullas per turn) this essentually ends your turn (option exists to move Gundrill prior to invoking this ability, working similar to the move and dratp). Gundrill's ability 'moves' another Maseitai, perhaps Tiny Kiggoshi. Does Tiny Kiggoshi's move constitute a real move in that Tiny K could then drapt in the same turn? (For now I'm playing that Tiny K could NOT drapt.) Great game, but it would be nice to get offical answers to these rules question from somewhere.
Brian, I wish there were some place to ask these questions. I already have several. Please post your questions to this page so that we can collect them all in one place. 1. When a Dratp effect or line-over returns a promoted Maseitai from the graveyard, does it un-Dratp? 2. On the movement compass, if the adjacent square is white but the second square out is colored yellow (like promoted Troll), does that mean that it is a leaping move to the second square? Or does the adjacent square have to be free of obstruction in order for Troll to get to the second square? 3. If a Maseitai movement compass had the Knight move square colored yellow, would that be a leap over any obstruction? Or would an adjacent square have to be unobstructed between the start and the destination-- the way it is in Chinese Chess? 4. Can a Maseitai ever un-Dratp? 5. Can a Maseitai perform a line-over?
James, I didn't know ND had one main creator. His name should be listed on this website where it says 'inventor: Bandai'! What's his name? Please ask him on behalf of chessvariants.com, if it's true that ND was inspired by Tori (Bird) Shogi! I played this game twice yesterday at the meeting of SEMI-Abstract Gamers. (South East MIchigan) Most of them basically agree with my position, that this will increase interest in chess variants. There are young people such as my brother who never bothered with chess until ND. He loves it.
After a few games (and quite a bit of hair-splitting, which is usual for our group), we came up with several questions. Does anyone know of where to get 'official' answers before the GenCon tournament(s)? Thanks in advance!
Garrison is my least favorite piece in the set. By the way the piece that can bounce off the sides of the board is called Hansa piece M-023. One of the pieces that I like in the boosters is Lord Kiggoshi, piece M-028. 25 gyullas cost. Power Smart Bomb. choose a 3x3 area on the Battlefield and send all battle pieces (even your own) to the Graveyard. Note: Navia's are immune to all effects.
PL, from having played this one time, I can already tell you that my negative evaluation of Garrison is slightly revised. He promotes from Shogi's 'Gold General' to Shogi's 'Lance,' but I now see that the ranged movement is printed as a dashed line. According to the rule book this means a ranged move that can leap over its first obstruction if desired. That partially makes up for the fact that the closer promoted-Garrison gets to the opponent's side, the fewer squares he is attacking, until finally he will sit on the end rank completely immobile. The book seems to confirm this, because it only refers to going off the end of the board with gulled (pawns) and Navias. The Maseitai are not even mentioned in that section. I still think Garrison is only worth using in Tandem with the Gundrill's 'Voice to Call' or Olip's 'Reflection in the Water.' You might like my games page with Maseitai pictures and comments: http://www.geocities.com/nemorathwald/Games.htm#naviadrapt I'm also pleased to report that one of the booster-pack Maseitai (I'm not sure of the name) is what we like to refer to as a Reflecting Bishop (see the Piececlopedia). He may bounce off the edge of the board. How cool!
Matt, Hope it will be enjoyable, and give us your impressions afterwards! Even if my order ships in time, I don't think it'll make it for the weekend, so I guess I can focus on the Vassalengine adaptation in the meantime... At some point it would be interesting to discuss strategy, since you seem to have quite some experience in chess-style games. Personally, I have a much better (yet still not very good) understanding of Go strategy than Shogi, or even western chess, since it was never a game popular in my circle of friends/gamers.
Matt, I'm glad you got your starters already. I'll be working at the Bandai booth at Gen Con Indy next week doing demos and Erick will be running Navia Drapt tournaments during the convention. Hopefully, we will get a good turnout for the tournaments. Creator of the game is supposed to come from Japan and play the winner of the tournament.
PL, my brother has Pirates otSM. I've played it and it's fun. The best thing about it is that they actually printed it all correctly; no errata sheet! The guy I'm corresponding with who is with Bandai organized play says to wait two or three weeks and they will have their company's organized play system complete. In the meantime my local chess variants group is getting together to play Navia Dratp tonight.
That is the funny thing though, usually an internet presence is the glue that holds a community of gamers together between conventions and special in-store events, as all the smaller and larger game companies catering to the 'Hobby market' know well. Unlike major companies like Hasbro, or Bandai, which cater to the mainstream market with palette-loads of games shipped to the local Toys'R'Us, mainly big 'properties' and family classics like Monopoly, Pictionary, Stratego etc., smaller companies like Wizkids, Decipher etc. need to foster a community, especially online(!), organize tournaments etc.,which obviously a large corporation like Bandai isn't used to doing (even though they talk the talk, as per the interview you mention) I also remember reading an interview (maybe the same) about them opening a specific website like that, but one would think that by the time a product is released, it should be up and running... I guess we'll see on Saturday. I just finished reading a book on (non-computer) Game Design and the rather peculiar american games industry responsible for manufacturing and distributing these games, and it was full of anecdotes of mismanagement and odd decisions that make you wonder what were they thinking? It's just funny to see it ongoing. Perhaps, because it is aimed at such a 'small' market they don't know well, Bandai has barely been able to meet the demand with more pre-orders than expected, and not wanting to overstock, and thus have no interest in pushing it at this time... Another example would be Wizkids, who previously ran into major problems producing _too much_ product, and not finding any buyers, and just recently largely miscalculated the interest in their latest product, Pirates of the Spanish Main, after fanning the interest of gamers for months _online_ (irregardless of wether it's actually a good game), and ended up well short of the demand. Now some people make quite a bit of money on eBay while Wizkids looses sales, scrambling to get more product manufactured. Anyway, just some idle musings...
Danny Satyapan of Bandai was interviewed and said 'Unlike with any product Bandai America's ever released, Navia Dratp, due to the nature of the property and the game, will see the overwhelming majority of presence in the hobby market. Our strategy is to have this product circulate in hobby for at least six months before and if it does eventually reach the mass retailers. Even if it does reach mass retailers, the hobby market will always be ahead of the game with new expansions in stores months before the mass market gets them. In addition, promotional figures for organized play support will only be available through hobby channels.'
Lucky You :) I ordered mine online since the only decent Gamestore in my area closed down a couple of months ago... there's a comicbookstore, but it's all YuGiOh cards :p I was thinking about starting a Yahoo Group, since there doesn't seem to be one yet, and it's free too... Of course a website would be more flexible, if you can host it & build it. Speaking of online presence, the Bandai marketeers are keeping a VERY low profile, aren't they? Companies like Wizkids drum up interest for months with sneak peeks, forums, downloadable rules etc, but Bandai's website: 'Coming soon'? They must be very sure of their success or, on the contrary, not care that much (since it's not a big property/brand anyway)?
Yesterday I called up a local games store to see if they could confirm that ND would be on their shelves in time for the official street date this Saturday, and they told me it had already arrived that very day! So I went down there and plunked down $60 for Starter Sets 1 and 2. I played this game yesterday, and I can tell you it's fun and beautiful. I'd like to start a fan site and call it 'Variant Pad.'
Here's a list I found of the additional Pieces available through Booster Packs: NAVIAS: N-003 Navia Io, N-004 Navia Krra MASEITAI: M-015 Schmidt, M-016 Matogayu, M-017 Midrah, M-018 Kanaba, M-019 Sungyullas, M-020 Tanhoizer, M-021 Kanimiso, M-022 Billpentod, M-023 Hansa, M-024 Kapinahs, M-025 Odd, M-026 Coydrocomp, M-027 Nemchant, M-028 Lord Kiggoshi, M-029 Chugyullas Together with the 2 Navias and 14 Maseitais from the Starter Sets, that makes for a total of 33 unique pieces in the first release.
PL, I'm definitely up for that. Just let me know when it's ready.
(Finally got my ID, since it looks like I'm posting more than one or two messages :) Since at least initially Navia Dratp will only have a small audience, and players will be fairly few and far inbetween, by location or schedule (in my case) I have been toying with creating a simple online/play-by-email adaptation to try and get to play with other enthusiasts. As a warm-up I have created a Tori Shogi adaptation (on which Navia Dratp seems to be loosely based) using a generic, free/open-source boardgame/wargame engine called the Vassal engine (http://vassalengine.org/) which runs on all major OSes, and allows for both online and play-by-email gaming. If you would like to give it a shot, the beta can be found in the 'Files' section of the Yahoo Group of the same name. Also let me know if you would be interested in playing that way. I admit that regrettably any virtual version won't let you use the nice physical components but at least you get to play... and hey, I plan to make an effort to make it as nice as possible (see my Tori Shogi adaptation) P.
(Follow-up to my preceding post) Today, a gallery of all pieces (& cards) came online. Thus the missing piece is the following: #14. 'Koma' looks like a sort of knight in a shell/stone armore. Moves to any of a line of 5 squares in front of him (good defense?) Power: 'Sealing' - For 8 Gyullas, send any Maseitai of your choice (even your own) from battlefield to the Keep(Seal), Koma must be sent to Graveyard. The pictures seem to be from the final mass-production version, which went through the unfortunately expected process of 'cheapification'. The biggest changes are: - noticeably less detailed Navias (especially noticeable since the pictures of the original promotional pieces are still used on the cards) Maybe a little paint touch-up would improve them, but the sculptures look less detailed too... - a redesigned board which look like it just might be a piece of paper folded in four (I always wondered how they would fit the original mat, even rolled up, into the boxes on display) Regardless of the physical aspect, I liked the original design better (but that can be helped too) But all the other parts, incl. the Maseitai still look very nice, and of course none of the above detracts from a hopefully interesting gameplay. P. I don't know if links to (commercial) websites are permissible, but at the moderator's discretion: http://www.toywiz.com/nadrfiga.html (I have not personally dealt with the shop, and do not endorse it in any way) Otherwise, as always, Google is your helpful assistant.
I noticed in the list below (and the card pics on your website (thanks for posting)) that there are only six different Maseitai listed for one of the starters. I know I could wait until the release :|, but I'm just curious if that means there are 2 of the same in that set, or if one was just accidentally omitted? Definetely looking forward to the game! P.
Thanks to Michele from Conclave Games in Louisiana for sending me info about the Maseitai that come with the first starter sets. In the following descriptions, keep in mind that each piece may only Dratp one time (I think). Here is the team that comes in the set of the Navia named Estelle. #1. 'Troll' looks like an elf with long ears, bug eyes and bug wings. It moves as a Ferz (one diagonal step). For 4 gyullas, Troll promotes to a Dabbabah Ferz (leaps to the second-out orthogonal space, or one diagonal step.) 'Navia Guard:' Can be summoned not just to a Summoning Square, but also to any square adjacent to the Navia. 'Energy Drop:' Earn 10 gyullas when Troll is sent to the Graveyard by your opponent. #2. 'Agunilyos' is an anthropomorphic tiger wearing armor and a cape with a sword. It moves as a King, but for 16 gyullas promotes to a Queen. #3. 'Hamulus Garuda' is an anthropomorphic pterodactyl carrying a six-barreled crossbow. It moves as a Ferz combined with non-leaping Alfil. (In other words, up to two steps in any diagonal direction.) For 9 gyullas it promotes to King + Bishop. #4. 'Garrison' is an anthropomorphic panther wearing armor and a cape with a sword. It starts as a Gold General (like a King missing the backward diagonal directions) and promotes for 5 gyullas to a Lance (a Rook that can only move forward). I sure wouldn't Dratp this piece, unless you have another one with the magic power to bring him back when he's stuck helpless on the farthest rank. #5. 'Netol' is a woman with rabbit ears, a huge collar-frill like a lizard, and skin as ebony as night. She can take one step straight forward or backward, or the forward diagonals, but not straight to the side, or back diagonals. For 5 gyullas she invokes the 'Spider's Thread:' Resurrect any Maseitai of your choice from your Graveyard to any open Summoning Squares, and send Netol to take its place in the Graveyard. #6. 'Gundrill' is a wrinkly Mandrill ape with screaming jaws full of fangs and a gigantic exposed brain. It moves as a Ferz combined with non-leaping Alfil. (In other words, up to two steps in any diagonal direction.) For 6 gyullas, decrease its range of movement so that it can only move side-to-side up to two spaces, and it gains 'Voice to Call:' Once per turn, you may move one of your battle pieces of your choice (such as the promoted Garrison, I hope) from anywhere on the battlefield to any open space adjacent to Gundrill, except for the ones straight left and right. The following is the team that comes in the set of the Navia named Deborah. #7. 'Tiny Kiggoshi' looks like a green Martian with a big spherical braincase, a conical hat with streamers, slouching posture and a vapid expression. It takes one step right, left or forward. For 14 Gyullas invoke 'Shared Destruction:' Send Tiny Kiggoshi plus any Battle Piece of your choice (even your own) from the Battlefield to the Graveyard. #8. 'Olip' is a little floating, puffy, multi-colored glowing jelly with flaps like a flying squirrel and tiny fangs under his cute beady eyes. He takes one orthogonal step. For 4 gyullas, invoke 'Reflection in the Water:' On the turn that you Dratp, switch the position of two of your pieces on the Battlefield. #9. 'Gilgame II' appears to be a giant bio-mecha like I used to see Voltron fighting. It moves as a Silver General (one step diagonally or straight forward). For 11 gyullas it promotes to King + Dabbabah + non-leaping Alfil. (1 or 2 steps in any direction.) #10. 'Moses' is an anthropomorphic dinosaur with a pteranodon crest, wearing armor and a cape and weilding a battleaxe. It moves up to 2 steps orthogonally. For 10 gyullas, promote to King + Rook. #11. 'Nebguard' is an anthropomorphic ram with giant spiral horns, wearing armor and weilding what appears to be a polearm. It moves up to two steps, diagonally forward or straight backward. For 3 gyullas, he promotes to go as far as desired in those three directions, like a 'forward Bishop' combined with 'backward Rook.' #12. 'Gyullas Turtle' is a flying robot turtle who moves one step in the three forward directions. For 5 gyullas, invoke 'Gyullas Glutton:' Earn 6 gyullas per turn when Gyullas Turtle moves from now on. #13. 'Kapinah' is an anthropomorphic bird of prey wearing armor and weilding a sword. It moves one step straight forward. For 8 gyullas, promote to move one step forward, left, right, or diagonally forward, and invoke 'Dive Bomb:' On the turn that you Dratp, immediately fly to any open space on the Battlefield.
I got the demo set in yesterday, and the game is gorgeous, and we're looking forward to generating some excitment for the game by the time it appears mid-August. The game play is relatively simple to grasp the basics, then it takes a bit more study to get to the strategy of it all. I know the collectibility of the pieces is going to turn some people off of the game. As a retailer, of course, I enjoy what collectibility does to my cash register. As a player, I'm torn on it. I like the excitment of the chase, but if I'm really wanting a particular piece, then I'm going to be frustrated if it doesn't turn up within a few purchases. Give the game a try...I think most of you will find it enjoyable. And if nothing else, the pieces are beautiful to look at--and not all of them are little 'girlie' figures. They should appeal to both genders.
Unofficial news but this should be accurate: Odd - (revival) has the ability to revive as many black gulleds as possible from your graveyard for 6 gyullas Lord Kiggoshi - (smart bomb) drapt for 25 gyullas and kill all pieces even your own in 3x3 grid on the board Nemchant - (power destroyer) for 7 gyullas un-drapt all pieces even your own on the board Hansa - one of his movements is move diagnolly but can bounce off the side of the board Those are a few of the pieces in the booster boxes.
Thank you very much, James! Can you give us the names, movements and powers of the pieces you've seen? That's what I'm dying to know!
From someone helping with Bandai's demos and game play. Trying to answer some of the questions I've seen: I believe that there will be 31 pieces total in the first series (7 each in 2 starters and 17 pieces only available in the boosters. There is a checklist in the instruction booklet that comes with the starters. Hope I remembered it correctly. Right now the rules allow you to have any 7 masetai that you wish on your side. No duplicates unless you have a painted and unpainted figure. The theory behind allowing any pieces of your choice is that if you pick figures that all have to high of a drapting cost (the more powerful figures) that you will never earn enough gyullas to use them. So you need to balance your team. We'll just have to see how this works out because I'm not sure if the theory will work or not. Because there are 3 different ways to win you may pick very different pieces from your opponent. Again, we will have to see if this theory works out or if everyone is going to play with the same figures. Bandai is having very small informal tournaments at some of the summer conventions. So far Origins, Anime Expo, San Diego Comic Con. First officially scheduled tournament will be at Gen Con Indy. We have been having the players draft pieces from the 2 starters to form their side and it has worked out pretty well so far. Not sure how Gen Con Indy will be run yet. Prizes have included starters and boosters for the top couple of winners. Hope this helps a little.
If every booster set has a rare piece, there will have to be very many different rare pieces. Otherwise, rare pieces will rarely appear in booster sets.
What I want to know isn't how many pieces are going to be rare but, how many are there going to be total in the series? (Series 1)Such as is there going to be a checklist type page sent out with each booster? Or no? And if not how will you be able to get one? Most people will want to know how many there are so that they know wether or not they have the whole set or, if they still need to get more. Also if there is only three pieces in the boosters then how will they be arranged? 1 Rare and two others per box. Or 1 rare, 1 uncommon and, 1 common per box? The set up design of the boosters will also have a big effect on sales too.
Mike, this is exciting news! Where was this tournament? How was it possible to conduct a whole tournament before the public release? Do you mean a demo? Can you describe some of the pieces?
I played Navia Dratp Tournement this weekend. There are a few rules that you don't have listed. 1 Winning the game: Capturing opponents Navia, Moving your Navia off the opposite side of the board, collecting all 60 points. 2 When a piece is captured, you recieve it's value in points, 1 or 3 for the pawns, and the promotion cost for a figure. 3. You may use your turn to promote a piece without moving it, but you can not move any other piece.
I don't believe it is a question if random distribution of pre-painted miniature games are immoral or unethical. The fact is products distributed in this manner are very popular right now. The random distribution element immediately creates a market and collectibility that does not exist with games that have all fixed pieces. Wizkids, who has a number of randomly distributed game products, tried to create an all fixed, what you see is what you get, game product in reaction to these types of concerns, but it did not catch on. Whether a game has too many rare, chase figures, cards, etc. is only a matter of concern if you want to compete in ultra-competitive tournaments. Most CCGs and TMGs play just fine even on limited resources. You don't need a complete set or multiple broken chase figures to play. A starter set or two, and perhaps a few boosters later on is usually more than enough to try a game out and play the game for fun just like any other fixed game set. Having a number of extra playing pieces available to add to your game later if you really like the game is just an added option that doesn't exist with most off the shelf, fixed game sets.
One of the reasons that video-game adaptations of these sorts of games are so great is that the only money you spend is the $20-$50 on the game itself... Of course if successive versions are released, we all know how that goes. Still, there really isn't anything like playing a game with physical pieces with a human sitting opposite you. An average of $3 a piece may seem a little high, but do recall that you use much fewer pieces in an army for Navia Dratp than you do cards in any given CCG, meaning that in the long run you may spend less money to get a 'really good' set. Of course, none of us knows until it's released. I suggest we all wait until then, and *then* start to bash the game's little details.
Fergus, It's been confirmed by distributors that ND booster packs will be mystery grab bags of 3 minis for $9. The same with the 8 minis in the starter set, except you can see the Navia through the packaging. Wizkids already uses this marketing tactic, and me and my brother probably have 200 click-dial miniatures between us. I stopped buying them cold turkey last year after I saw Navia Dratp, and started selling them off, because I am strictly a 'one-expensive-miniatures-game-at-a-time' kind of guy. I feel your pain. Michael, true or false: game companies should not sell a sealed box of random game components in which the purchaser does not know what he is paying for. Is such a company exploiting its customers? Or as I would say, hey, I can't blame them for milking a cash cow for all it's worth. The answer could be interpreted as a statement about morality. Stay on this channel after the movie for a shocking expose on the 11:00 news. I was being deliberately hyperbolic, sorry-- but that's because controversy is so much more interesting. ;^) Any relation to David Howe?
Matt, You might want to consider getting a userid that will allow you to post here without waiting for an editor to okay your messages. It's free, and it will also give you the ability to edit your messages after posting them. I think Larry was complaining about a marketing ploy for getting people to buy more than they need. It's commonly done with cards. You buy a packet of trading cards without knowing what's in it and hope you get some new ones. But it seems less likely to me that this would be done with figurines. I imagine that Navia Dratp will include some starter sets and booster sets, but I doubt that they will be selling their figurines in mystery grab bags. With the higher prices of figurines, I expect that would be a bad marketing ploy. It seems more likely to me that most figurines will be sold individually like action figures. As for myself, I don't expect to buy the game at all. This is partly because I'm poor, and this game is just an extravagant luxury item to me. Also, I have never been into collectible games, perhaps because they were never a fad when I was a kid. The first collectible game I ever heard of was Magic the Gathering, and I never heard of it until I was in graduate school. And I've still never played it. The only collectible game I ever played was Pokemon, which I played once with a much younger cousin who was into the game. I somehow won without really understanding the rules, and I know I won only because that's what my cousin told me. When I was in high school, the really big thing in gaming was Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. I remember remarking once that I had spent around $200.00 on this game. It was like a collectible game in that you would buy it in components, but it wasn't the same thing. I would describe it as a modular game, not a collectible game. The main things to buy for the game were rulebooks, modules, and dice. You could buy figurines for it too, but I never did. I was still in high school the last time I played AD&D, and I eventually sold most of my books. Since then, I have never played another role playing game. I do hold out some hope that Navia Dratp will draw some people into Chess variants. It sometimes takes only a little push to move someone in this direction. My early interest in Chess variants had lain dormant for many years. In 1998, I downloaded an abandonware copy of Battle Chess II for the Amiga, and I ran it on an Amiga emulator on my PC. This turned out to be Chinese Chess, which got me interested in the possibility of finding programs that would play other Chess variants. I then found programs for Shogi, Grand Chess, and Capablanca's Chess. A short time later I discovered this site, and shortly after that, Zillions debuted, and the rest is history. It's possible that Navia Dratp will directly inspire an interest in Chess variants in only a few people, but even if that's all that happens, it could have a rippling effect if even just one of them becomes a regular member of the CV community. So there is potential that Navia Drapt will help the CV cause even if I'm not going to buy the game myself.
Jared, all I came up with was the four-player rules. I was just as surprised as you that I was attributed on the page. ND 4-hand is a speculative unauthorized rule change that has never been played yet and is not associated in any way with Bandai. It's based on Hannibal, a 3-hand 3D chess totally of my own invention, which my local abstract group has playtested. They say I'm really on to something with that game. Fergus, I agree that you have expressed only skepticism and not complete dismissal. And, the responses here so far have been mostly positive. But you are wrong that no one has gone so far as to completely dismiss the game. Michael just got done saying in his last post that the benefit to the CV field is unlikely to exceed the harm. An anonymous commentor said, and I quote, 'Sorry, but I just can't generate any enthusiasm for this game.' I respect these valid opinions and consider them worthy of a thoughtful response. This is a very enjoyable discussion. I myself have pointed out serious needs for improvement. In a well-rounded view, by no means is ND for everybody. I'm excited about it because it fuses my pre-existing interests in both CV and collectable miniatures. A few of the objections have not made sense. For example, does the need to own exactly the components that one desires make this a sinister game with an immoral concept? Where does that come from? In a collectable game each miniature is its own independent product. They're designed to be a game construction set in which any combination of miniatures is fun. I can think of several Mechwarriors I'd like to own, but a battle isn't impoverished for their absence. Exchanging them with other players has also been fun, since it's a social experience.
It pertains to the discussion because he is trying to tell everyone who has dismissed any part of it, since it isn't necessarily the entire ruleset of a game which makes people dislike it -- sometimes a seemingly minor issue can cause someone to dislike an otherwise good game. I would like to know whether Matt Arnold is actually an inventor of this game, as its entry states. I know he did invent the four-handed variation, but I thought that was pretty much it.
Tony, I understand Matt's argument, but what I don't understand is how it pertains to anything anyone has said here, since no one here has gone so far as to utterly dismiss the game.
I think that what Matt is trying to argue for is: give the game a chance! Will it appeal to everyone, especially chess enthusiasts? No. Do collectible games (of which I too have partaken) have a 'down-side'? Yes. Does ND have some appealing features? Yes. Will it at least expose more people (kids) to chess and chess variants? Yes. So, let it be, and, in some way, support it. This page is a good idea.
I do agree that Battle Chess does an excellent job of making humaniform pieces distinct from one another. I wish there were a Battle Chess update for Windows that would actually play Chess well and took advantage of true color and high resolution displays.
Larry, you make a good point about obsessive collectors. But I think the problem lies with them and not the company. I expect there will be certain Maseitai which I like, and I'll casually seek those through trading. Maybe one or two I'll buy through e-Bay for ten bucks. If I don't get them, so what? It's just a game. I don't care if I get the entire collection, although I do intend to try to obtain photos of them all. As long as I take a contented attitude instead of being sucked into greed and envy, I won't spend too much money. And then what would be the big deal?
First of all, Magic the Gathering has caught on -- you just need to know where to look for it. I see MTG players all the time at our local community college, as an example. One of the things I keep seeing in this discussion is the lack, at present, of team-building rules. I would like to point out that most CCGs have no such rules, except those like disallowing too many of one card in a deck (and I would assume that this would eventually get a rule like that at some point). The reason for this is that there is a counterbalance to power and usefulness, that counterbalance being the rarity (and eventually, street cash value) of said cards. (There is often another counterbalance, too: the cost to utilize rarer and more powerful things. When playing Yu-Gi-Oh, for example, you can't play strong monster cards without either sacrificing weaker ones or obtaining a bunch of cards to 'fuse' together. This kind of counterbalance is already in Navia Dratp in promotion powers.) My two cents on the anthromorphic-style pieces, as opposed to abstract stuff: It's possible to create a set of pieces which are quite easy to distinguish from each other. Look at Battle Chess, for instance. Besides, I don't really see how you could get different pieces in Navia Dratp easily confused, since they all have that little descriptive disc on them. Finally, I hope that this game doesn't get a Saturday morning cartoon (or any other morning, for that matter) because when anything gets its own cartoon, it turns into a game that most older players 'wouldn't be caught dead with.'
When I was younger I fell for the 'collectible' game series. I was into Doomtrooper and Imajica cards. I spent a lot of my hard-earned cash attempting to 'collect' these entire series, buying boxes and boxes of cards. But these companies enjoyed torturing me, keeping my goal just beyond my reach. Doomtrooper increased its volume with the seemingly un-ending introduction of expansion sets. Imajica went out of print long before I could even hope to obtain my goal. I have shoe boxes filled with these cards, carefully filed and catalogued. Not being used or enjoyed, just taking up space in my closet. And filled primarily with un-godly numbers of the dreaded common cards. Now I'm not saying that this game will have the same result. I will just be leery of investment into something that I cannot obtain in its entire. Will the company offer the entire series as a set? or will they dole out these 'pieces', forcing us to buy endless numbers of the same pieces in order to obtain that one good piece. If the latter, I have absolutely no intention of even considering purchasing a single part of the game.
100 comments displayed
Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.
Thanks Fergus. So the entry in the alphabetical listing is a little out-dated "An upcoming commercial chess variant with collectible, tradable pieces"
Not sure if it can be changed, but the entry drew my attention because inventors that make the commitment to release actual physical variant chess sets is of interest to me.