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Pocket Shogi Copper. A Variant of Shogi with Copper General and Pocket.
Greg Strong wrote on 2018-01-28 UTC

I don't understand the description of the movement of the promoted knight:

Promoted Knight Has 1 forward movent diagonal or orthogonal, 2 side movements left and right, and 2 rear knight movements.

Also, I'm a little confused that the description says each player has one pocket square, but the diagram shows two green squares per player.  Is the square with the copper general not a pocket square?  If so, does the color of the square change when you drop the copper?

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-01-28 UTC

Hello Greg,

I think I can help here.

To be honest the promoted knight description should be rephared but I know what I'm talking about as me and wdtr2 have already talked about it :)! The Betza notation would be fFfsWbbN. Meaning it can make all the three forward steps and the two sideways steps. It can also jump to the two rearmost orthdox knigth squares. So it is a almost gold general with the back moves modified, or at least that was the point :)!

Indeed the square where the copper general starts is not a pocket square. Personally I think about it as a reserve square, that is used for holding the copper general initially and nothing else. The pockets are permanently in the one player's ownership which it never changes. But I'm not sure if that was your last question.

Greg Strong wrote on 2018-01-28 UTC

To be honest the promoted knight description should be rephared but I know what I'm talking about as me and wdtr2 have already talked about it :)! The Betza notation would be fFfsWbbN. Meaning it can make all the three forward steps and the two sideways steps. It can also jump to the two rearmost orthdox knigth squares. So it is a almost gold general with the back moves modified, or at least that was the point :)!

Got it.  What threw me was the phrase "Has 1 forward movent diagonal or orthogonal".  It has three forward movements.  Perhaps he meant moves a single space, but that can't be because it also says "2 side movements left and right", but those are single-space moves also, and there are two of them.  Anyway, I think this is a nice piece that would be very interesting in a shogi setting, but the description needs rewriting.

Indeed the square where the copper general starts is not a pocket square. Personally I think about it as a reserve square, that is used for holding the copper general initially and nothing else. The pockets are permanently in the one player's ownership which it never changes. But I'm not sure if that was your last question.

No, that wasn't really my question.  If you look at the presentation of the game, you have a main board in the middle.  Then players have two green squares each, one with a copper.  Then, further out, you have the space where pieces-in-hand stay while they are waiting to be dropped.  It seems to me that the Copper Generals are just pieces-in-hand waiting to be dropped.  Why are they on green squares that look like, but are not, pocket squares?  That just seems wrong.  What I was asking was whether the color of the square itself changed from green to blue after the copper was dropped - like the way the launch squares in Brouhaha disappear when you move off of them.  That would help to clarify that they are not pocket squares (it looks like each player has 2 pockets.)  But really, the coppers should just start in-hand like any other captured piece waiting to be dropped.  This presentation is confusing and counter-intuitive.

But this does look like a nice, promissing game!  Just needs a little tweeking to the description and we'll get it published.

Thanks,
Greg

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-01-28 UTC

I think it is a nice alternative to the gold general, although it could actually be weaker than a regular gold general as when it has to retreat it needs two more moves to get back into the fight. The back knight move that is not towards the king could border uselessness but the number of variations is huge so I could very well be wrong :)!

The copper generals start basically in hand indeed :)! But this presentations is confusing, I'm sure that eventually wdtr2 will notice.

And Greg,

I'm glad you like this game as, in order to spill the beans , it will be published as an entry point to shogi variants, in  a new international shogi magazine. Me and wdtr2 will write the article as proposed by lady shogi professional and magazine chief editor and promoter Karolina Styczynska. Although I did proposed a slight modification from the rules written here and wdtr2 has agreed, meaning the promoted form of the lance will no longer be a vertical moves but a side mover. That is because side attacking comes more handy at the point of promotion as usually there is not much more forward to go by. Also still under debate in order to make the game more balanced, as probably know first player's advantage is increased,maybe only white should start with the copper in reserve and black should start with the copper in pocket, thereby blocking it :)! What do you guys think about those 2 modifications :)!

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2018-05-16 UTC

The rules and piece descriptions could use some more clarity. In the rules, you should probably say that this game follows the rules of Shogi with the following exceptions, then clearly give each exception. When you say "There is no demotion," some context would be helpful. Are you just talking about the pocket or making the more radical claim that pieces do not even demote under the circumstances where they do in Shogi? The description for the promoted Knight has multiple interpretations, and it should be written so that the correct interpretation comes across clearly and unambiguously. In the description of the Copper General, you speak of it promoting to a Silver General, but then you describe a Promoted Copper General that doesn't move as a Silver General.

wdtr2 wrote on 2018-05-16 UTC

Greg Strong wrote on 2018-06-27 UTCExcellent ★★★★★

I've played a few games of this and I think you've hit on a winner.  It's a very exciting game.  Congratulations!

There were two different pages for this, so I've moved the comments over from the other page and deleted it.  We should get a Game Courier Preset page for it published also.

Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-07-28 UTCExcellent ★★★★★

I like this cool variant even better than the somewhat similar Pocket Shogi Plus, owing to each side having a Copper General at the outset.

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-07-28 UTC

@Kevin

In my infinite modesty I can bragg I had a contribution to adding the copper (as it would be hard to defend otherwise) :)!

Care to try one, two?