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Gross Chess. A big variant with a small learning curve. (12x12, Cells: 144) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Calvin Daniels wrote on Sat, Apr 9, 2011 03:29 AM UTC:
I think a name change for a better game is worth it *smile

I just think the big board is fine for some pieces, but the jumpers take a
long time to get to the opposite side. A knight is 5 moves to other side.

The champion too is a slow mover on the 12X12

Also the power creep here is rather steep. I admit I was looking for this
very game really, one using the most familiar variant pieces, but there is
a lot of power her, so limited Marshall and Archbishop to only one piece
pairs that back, and actually mirrors most variants that use those compound
pieces.

And, for the most part this is an amalgamation game, picking bits of game
'a' - 'b' - 'c' and putting on a single board.

So why not borrow the Omega board too

That said, if you adjust game I would put an element to change the pawns
(something most variants don't). The options are generally easy to teach
and still use pieces you have.

Have you contemplated berolina pawns?

🕸💡📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Apr 8, 2011 10:44 PM UTC:
So far, my main problem with this game has been its size. So reducing the pieces and the size of the board, as you suggest, might be an improvement. But without a gross of squares, it would no longer be Gross Chess.

Calvin Daniels wrote on Fri, Apr 8, 2011 10:02 PM UTC:
I love the idea of using recognizable pieces.

But.... Isn't  there always a but .... I'd use the Omega board leaving
the Wizard in extra corner and limit the expansion to a single archbishop
and marshall.

The other thing I wonder about variants is why pawn pool is rarely changed.
A couple of Sargeants or something would help.

🕸💡📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sat, Feb 6, 2010 01:55 AM UTC:
Okay, you're right. A Wazir can't check a King without being adjacent to it, which allows the King to capture it. So it must be protected by its own King to checkmate the enemy King. But the King cannot both protect the Wazir and cover all the spaces the enemy King might flee to, because to do both, it would need to be adjacent to the enemy King, which it can't do, because that would put it in check. A piece that covered two orthogonally adjacent spaces would not need protection from its King, leaving the King free to cover the remaining spaces.

Jörg Knappen wrote on Fri, Feb 5, 2010 04:55 PM UTC:
There is a minor error about the WL (Wazir+Camel) compound: This piece cannot checkmate, because it does not control two orthogonally adjacent squares. Therefore it is not a major piece under the definition used by Fergus Duniho.

On the other hand, a Wazir and a Camel and a King (three pieces!) can mate a lone King.

David Paulowich wrote on Fri, Feb 5, 2010 02:40 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

'21. Two Ferz's, even on different colors, cannot checkmate a lone King.'

'23. Two Camels, even on different colors, cannot checkmate a lone King.'

quotes from: Endgame statistics with fantasy pieces.

Regarding Knappen's [2010-02-04] Comment, I have not investigated mating with a pair of Wizards. I suppose that a pair of Spotted Gryphons will also be unable to force checkmate (in general).


Jörg Knappen wrote on Thu, Feb 4, 2010 10:07 AM UTC:Good ★★★★
This game should be judged by its design criteria: Given a set of pieces (in hardware), create a solid and playable chess variant for them. It think it fits this purpose well, allthough I think keeping the original movements of the Omega chess pieces makes this a rather slow game, because the pieces are short-range on a 12x12 board.

On the Omega wizard: A pair of wizards and a king cannot mate a lone king (on any conventional rightangular board). The reason is that they must switch between odd and even ranks and files all the time. On the big board the wizard is clearly weaker than the bishop; on 8x8 it may be equal or slightly stronger because of its higher mobility and forking power.

🕸💡📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Dec 15, 2009 03:33 AM UTC:
I have updated my earlier notes, better organizing the section on the leapers, adding mention of the Bison and Falcon, adding sections on the hoppers and compound riders, and suggesting a few variants.

🕸💡📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:31 AM UTC:

George Duke wrote:

One senses that the designer is sensitive so I for one rarely rate a Duniho. Gross Chess is new combination of pre-existing elements with no particular novelty. That is this designer's style and it usually works for solid performance. Duniho's total body of work does not rise to Betza's or Gifford's or Gilman's but does reach the very next ledge, maybe even nicking into the top 10 among prolificists. Eurasian is new combination too, it works very well, and so is nominee NextChess. Congratulations Fergus on reasonable regarded Eurasian, one of the 21 thus far at NextChesses. Gross here however falls only within unnecessary proliferation that I can tell serving to complexify the broth. It's about as worthwhile as the author's Grotesque, being just another Carrera-Capablanca. One can make these things, but why share them publicly?

I didn't create this game to show off my creativity or to win your praise, George. I made it because this combination of pieces interests me, and I want to play a game that includes all of them. Also, I wanted a solid entry-level 12x12 variant. Most 12x12 variants are too forbidding, because they introduce several new pieces while also increasing the board size beyond what I usually play on. This game is very easy to learn, because it doesn't introduce any pieces that would be new to someone familiar with the most popular Chess variants. So, it may fill the entry-level 12x12 niche better than any preceding 12x12 Chess variant. When creating a game, my main goals are to make it playable and enjoyable. This game is both. I have played it against Zillions a few times and found it to work well. My main goal in sharing it publicly is to find opponents for playing it. I think that's a much better reason than showing off how creative I can be.


George Duke wrote on Fri, Dec 11, 2009 09:00 PM UTC:Poor ★
One senses that the designer is sensitive so I for one rarely rate a Duniho. Gross Chess is new combination of pre-existing elements with no particular novelty. That is this designer's style and it usually works for solid performance. Duniho's total body of work does not rise to Betza's or Gifford's or Gilman's but does reach the very next ledge, maybe even nicking into the top 10 among prolificists. Eurasian is new combination too, it works very well, and so is nominee NextChess. Congratulations Fergus on reasonable regarded Eurasian, one of the 21 thus far at NextChesses. Gross here however falls only within unnecessary proliferation that I can tell serving to complexify the broth. It's about as worthwhile as the author's Grotesque, being just another Carrera-Capablanca. One can make these things, but why share them publicly?

David Paulowich wrote on Thu, Dec 10, 2009 02:47 AM UTC:

I think a Wizard is worth about the same as a Bishop - if you prefer taking 50 points off the Wizard and the Champion, that is fine with me. Just started my first game of TENCUBED CHESS last month, so the values are still untested theory.


🕸💡📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Dec 9, 2009 04:48 AM UTC:
Why do you think a Wizard is worth more than a Bishop? Do you know how to checkmate a King with two Wizards and a King on a 12x12 board? I haven't figured this out. I've only been able to stalemate the King. It may be possible on an Omega Chess board, because of the corner squares, but AFAIK the 12x12 board takes away that ability, decreasing the value of the Wizard from Omega Chess.

David Paulowich wrote on Wed, Dec 9, 2009 03:51 AM UTC:

Champions and Wizards were added to the GRAND CHESS setup in TenCubed Chess. WARNING: I recently added some comments to the Rules section of my 12x12 variant Rose Chess XII concerning forced mates by King and one piece against a lone King. The Champion can force mate on a 10x10 board, but often fails on a 12x12 board.

P=100, N=300, B=375, Wizard=400, Champion=450, R=600, A=850, M=950, Q=1100 are my best guesses for piece values in endgames on a 12x12 board. See the bottom of my ROSE CHESS XII page for some brief notes on theory. Interesting fact: my OMEGA CHESS certificate of ownership has notes on piece values (on a board with 104 squares) by Daniel Macdonald: Bishop=400 and Champion=400 are the only values that differ from mine. I usually value a Cannon equal to 70 percent of a Rook at the start of the game, lowering this estimate after each exchange to reach 50 percent by the early endgame. I assume that the Vao has the same numerical relationship to the Bishop.


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