Check out Glinski's Hexagonal Chess, our featured variant for May, 2024.


[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ]
[ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ]
[ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]

Ratings & Comments

LatestLater Reverse Order EarlierEarliest
Very Heavy Chess. A lot of firepower with all compounds of classical chess pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 4, 2022 09:18 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 07:55 PM:

Just some suggestions: 'Pithia' is a kind of high priestess. 'Abbess' is a female abbot: head of a community of Nuns.


Decimaka (revised). Game where pieces promote on making a capture. (10x10) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 4, 2022 08:38 PM UTC:

This article is ready to be published.


Very Heavy Chess. A lot of firepower with all compounds of classical chess pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, May 4, 2022 07:55 PM UTC:

Indeed, I wanted to change Templar for High Priestess. Then, I made a small search and found what Kevin is saying. This High Priestess is even referred on several places, so I can't ignore it. It plays as FAN. I thought about Reverend Mother, but it's too long. This how I came to Popess. The word exists.

Freemason is too heavily loaded. Several people are freemason and I'm not sure it won't be insulting for them, as they defined themselves as atheist too. That issue is complex, I prefer not going into it.

The 3 objections from Fergus are strange. Are Amazon, Gryphon, Manticore, Hyppogriff, Sylph, existing more than Popess? Are Bede, Bishopper, Barc, Ferfil, Vao, Ubi-Ubi more real? Is it possible to have 2 Sissa on the same game? Momess or something like this, would be an invention, not easily understandable.

Maybe I don't see the problem with Popess, the more I think, the more I like it.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, May 4, 2022 07:10 PM UTC:

Another suggestion I would make is Baroness. It has the B for Bishop, the N for Knight, and while it lacks a K, it is a royal title, and it has an R for roi, the French name for the King.


Kevin Pacey wrote on Wed, May 4, 2022 06:10 PM UTC:

I'd note High Priestess is used for a different piece type than BNW, in a number of CVs invented years ago by Joe Joyce that are still played on Game Courier now and then.

For BNW some years ago I thought up 'Freemason' (made it to wiki on Fairy Pieces, somehow). Historically the name could arguably be extended back to masonry. Freemasonry also includes a religious element to it, a Google search revealed. Main reason I picked the name was that it begins with 'F', which no other piece type in my Sac Chess CV started with. [edit: I picked 'Ship' for RNF since RF I called Sailor, and I'd use 'H' as its initial]. However a drawback is that Ship is used for many piece types/CVs, I later learned.

Somewhere in CVP's Man and Beast piece articles Charles Gilman long ago offered different names for BNW and RNF types than any mentioned in this thread. I like the name that Very Heavy Chess uses for RNF.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, May 4, 2022 04:33 PM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from 08:56 AM:

There are a few problems with the name Popess:

  1. Unless you're counting Pope Joan, there has been no such thing.
  2. Presumably, there would be only one Popess if there were one, because it would be a female Pope, but your game gives each player two of them.
  3. The word derives from a word meaning father. Presumably, the word for a female equivalent of a Pope should derive from a word for mother.

Here are some possible alternatives:

  • Mother Superior - the highest rank reached by nuns in the Catholic Church.
  • High Priestess - a common term for a high ranking female cleric, and it is used in the major arcana of the Tarot.
  • Bokononess - a made-up word formed from the name of a fictional religion portrayed in Kurt Vonnegut's novel Cat's Cradle.

Ironhouse. Members-Only Full tamerlane chess + Makruk + Shogi Pawns and Cannons. (11x10, Cells: 110) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Very Heavy Chess. A lot of firepower with all compounds of classical chess pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, May 4, 2022 08:56 AM UTC:

I have abandoned the name of Templar for the BKN, because Templar is used in other variants with other moves. I have adopted Popess which seems unused (although I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong).

For fun, Bikini would have been a possible alternative too.


Ironhouse. Members-Only Full tamerlane chess + Makruk + Shogi Pawns and Cannons. (11x10, Cells: 110) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Since this comment is for a page that has not been published yet, you must be signed in to read it.

Pandemonium (Surajang修羅場). Capablanca chess + Crazyhouse.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Daphne Snowmoon wrote on Tue, May 3, 2022 05:37 PM UTC:

I Fixed a typo

Pawn : Moves one square orthogonally forward

->

Pawn : Moves one square orthogonally forward or sideways


Chess 66. Board based on the 8x8 arrangement - with the difference that 66 fields are now available. (8x8, Cells: 66) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Apr 27, 2022 04:21 AM UTC:

I'm looking at the diagrams on my Likebook Mars at night, and on its monochrome e-ink screen, I cannot tell apart the red and blue pieces in the diagrams. At best, they are slightly different shades of black. In the diagram I made, the red pieces, which belong to White, appear even darker than the blue pieces, which belong to Black, which is opposite to how they should look in black and white. For the sake of accessibility for color-blind people and people using e-ink displays or black and white printouts, piece colors with more light/dark contrast would be more suitable.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 26, 2022 07:24 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 06:37 PM:

I am very impressed, the changed look in Game Courier is a real enrichment. I am sure that many things can be better represented on this basis. I hope that I am not going too far out on a limb when I say that a variant such as Avatar Chess can be better conveyed. A very interesting upgrade.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 26, 2022 06:37 PM UTC:

I have been working behind the scenes to get Game Courier and the drawdiagram.php script to display images better. They can now recolor loaded images for the grid shape, and they can display coordinates above selected boards, which is important for Chess66, because it helps dispell the illusion that a vertical line of movement begins and ends in the same file. Here is the closest it can now come to the diagram that appears in the article. I suppose I should work on options to recolor the pieces, since what I'm doing for this diagram is using a piece set with four colors of pieces and using different labels for all of the Red pieces.

Chess66 Diagram

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Apr 22, 2022 01:45 PM UTC:

Here's are some guidelines to use in revising your description of the game.

  1. The rules should be made entirely clear in the written text. Illustrations should be used to illustrate what the text has already said, not to provide additional information that is not written down.

  2. The text should describe not only what can be done but how to do it.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Apr 22, 2022 01:28 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 08:54 AM:

From the questions and expressions of confusion you got regarding what the rules are, it should be evident that you have not described them clearly enough. Also, you seemed to change your mind about some details in the comments. So, you should rewrite your rules to reflect anything you have changed your mind on and to supply the details that someone would currently have to read the comments to find out about.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Fri, Apr 22, 2022 08:54 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 02:08 AM:

"...once you have settled on the rules and have described them clearly."

With respect for the great job you are doing, but I can't accept that I haven't set the rules and described them clearly. You can have different perspectives, for example regarding the functionality of the switches. It is also possible to designate parts of it as non-essential. But it is not decisive what can be programmed with the available possibilities. It's a question whether the game can be played with my rules and that the rules are consistent. I had to move concerning the access to the switches because my rules weren't clear. That's it from my point of view. Had to be said. :)

I'm excited to see what happens with my other variants (Chees 69, an addition to Chess 66 and Avatar Chess).


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Apr 22, 2022 04:39 AM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from Thu Apr 21 07:12 PM:

the main feature of a switch that I'll retain is that spaces in the switch share some routes to and away from them, and movement from the narrow end can go in either of two different directions."

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand that.

I mean I am retaining the geometrical properties of the switches, but I am discarding the other rules regarding them.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Apr 22, 2022 02:08 AM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from Thu Apr 21 07:12 PM:

Does that mean my variant is history? Or have I misunderstood something?

No, it means I am working on my own variant instead of putting pressure on you to change yours. You're free to go with the rules you want for your game. I'll see what I can do about programming it once you have settled on the rules and have described them clearly.


Oblong chess. Variant of Shatranj, played on a four by sixteen sized board. (4x16, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
dead dead wrote on Fri, Apr 22, 2022 12:26 AM UTC in reply to from Thu Sep 9 2010 03:29 PM:

Or with the modern Bishop and Queen.


Chess 66. Board based on the 8x8 arrangement - with the difference that 66 fields are now available. (8x8, Cells: 66) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 11:27 PM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 07:38 PM:

As I understand it, Fergus has decided to program a variant based on yours, and given it a different name to signal that it's not the same game.

Exactly this.

This game differs from yours only in that both a4 and 4, or both 5 and h5, can be occupied/passed through simultaneously.

There are some other differences. Here's a link: Reroute66. The rules are described below the board. I'll add individual piece descriptions to the rules later.

I'll admit I find it a little odd that such conditionally untraversible squares should be so difficult to implement (couldn't it be done with uncapturable dummy pieces that appear and disappear as the other square is occupied and vacated?)

That's the solution I already proposed. But I also think these rules are not essential to the core concept of the game, and I wanted to start with a variant that does not include them.


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 08:43 PM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 07:38 PM:

One way to program it would be to have a single square 4/a4, and to introduce a number of extra piece types, each especially adapted to have the moves that the switches would allow. That is, you would have a special Rook for on a3, which would move forward both as a normal Rook, or with a move that switched file after one forward step. (And for a2 one that switched after 2 forward steps, etc.) When a piece of this Rook family would land on an edge file you make it automatically 'promote' to the kind of Rook that belongs on that square. When a Rook landed on a4 there would be a kind of promotion choice: it either stays/becomes a normal Rook, or one that replaces its forward move by a Left-Griffon move. Same idea for the other piece types.

I suppose that through this method I could even have the Interactive Diagram play Chess66. A user-supplied JavaScript function WeirdPromotion would take care of the 'promotions'.


Bn Em wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 07:38 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 07:12 PM:

As I understand it, Fergus has decided to program a variant based on yours, and given it a different name to signal that it's not the same game. As a game in itself yours remains intact (and probably eventually publishable too if and when the Editorship approves), just more difficult to program given the primitives that Game Courier provides.

This game differs from yours only in that both a4 and 4, or both 5 and h5, can be occupied/passed through simultaneously. As such those spaces connect to the rest of the board in the same way they do already, they just stop being a ‘switch’ in the railway sense (aka a ‘set of points’ in my native British English, or German ‘Weiche’ as used in your original German page) and become just an unusual topological/geometrical feature of the board.

I'll admit I find it a little odd that such conditionally untraversible squares should be so difficult to implement (couldn't it be done with uncapturable dummy pieces that appear and disappear as the other square is occupied and vacated?), but I'm not a programmer and I've never had a go at writing GAME Code, so…


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 07:12 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 02:46 PM:

It's a pity that reasons for programming are decisive for my variant being downgraded. It is also a pity that the name I have chosen should give way to another name. Does that mean my variant is history? Or have I misunderstood something?

"This will treat each space as a fully separate space, and the main feature of a switch that I'll retain is that spaces in the switch share some routes to and away from them, and movement from the narrow end can go in either of two different directions."

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand that.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 02:46 PM UTC:

During the night I changed my mind on one of my rule suggestions. I had proposed allowing capture of a piece on the occupied space of a switch when a piece moves to the unoccupied space of a switch. This was to fit in with rules regarding no double occupancy of switches and blocking any movement through the switch when one space in it is occupied. These happen to be the most difficult rules to program, and I don't think they're really essential to the concept of a switch. So, I'm going to program a stripped-down version of Chess66 that I'll call Reroute66. This will treat each space as a fully separate space, and the main feature of a switch that I'll retain is that spaces in the switch share some routes to and away from them, and movement from the narrow end can go in either of two different directions. I'll get to work on it later in the day.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 09:40 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 12:01 AM:

A really constructive discussion, thanks for that. I believe most has been discussed and a broad agreement could be achieved.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 09:24 AM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 07:54 AM:

"A Bishop on a4 could move along c5-d6-e7-f8 but not b5-c6-d7-e8. For a Bishop on 4 the reverse would be true. But that also means a Bishop on a4 can only be captured from c5 -d6-e7-f8 and not from b5-c6-d7-e8.

If this is true the ...."

This is absolutely correct when considering the squares of a switch as separate squares. This looks different if the switch is seen as a unit. But that's a convention that needs to be met. I have already described my intention, but it is not an absolute requirement.

"The issue of teh Knight is really an independent one. If the Knight's move is defined 'subtractively', by excluding moves that a Queen can do, its mobility is reduced in the vicinity of the switch, as Q gets extra moves there. In a 'constructive' definition of the Knight move, it would benefit from the switch topology to get extra moves as well."

Exactly this consideration speaks for a separation of the fields 4/a4. A knight starting from 4 via a5, a6 lands on b6. With a switch as a unit, b6 is on the same line. With 4 as a separate square, b6 is not on the same line. For a4 vice versa. That would be my consideration. I'm thinking of novice players who will notice exactly this inconsistency.


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 07:54 AM UTC:

Just to make sure I fully understand this:

A Bishop on a4 could move along c5-d6-e7-f8 but not b5-c6-d7-e8. For a Bishop on 4 the reverse would be true. But that also means a Bishop on a4 can only be captured from c5-d6-e7-f8 and not from b5-c6-d7-e8.

If this is true the only thing that 'switches' are the connections of 4/a4 to the upper board half. These are either to a5 (f) and b5 (fr), or to a5 (fl), b5 (f) and c5 (fr). And the switch is only in a determined state when 4/a4 is occupied. (And that state has to be chosen as part of the move that occupies it.) When the square is empty you can use all the connections to enter it from above, or to leave it in the same move when you entered it from below.

The intepretation of this that I consider conceptualy the simplest is that 4/a4 is indeed a single square cell, but that the setting of the switch is extra game state. Which can conveniently be indicated by placing the piece that occupies it in the right or left half of the cell, as the distinction only has to be made when the square is occupied. In a computer implementation one could implement the state of the switch through making separate cells of 4 and a4, with only single exits to 5th rank, and duplicate the exits to it from a3 (f), b3 (fl) and b4 (l) so that one connects to 4, the other to a4, both available at any time. But that still would require some 'unnatural' treatment of the spaces 4/a4, to consider one blocked when the other is occupied.

The issue of teh Knight is really an independent one. If the Knight's move is defined 'subtractively', by excluding moves that a Queen can do, its mobility is reduced in the vicinity of the switch, as Q gets extra moves there. In a 'constructive' definition of the Knight move, it would benefit from the switch topology to get extra moves as well.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Apr 21, 2022 12:01 AM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from Wed Apr 20 07:07 PM:

"A switch is an overlapping pair of spaces that in some ways operate together as a single space."

From my point of view it looks different. The square a4 of a switch is an independent square and is completely identical to the square a4 in normal chess. 4 (A4) is a composite square consisting of a half and triangle part of a4 and the new triangle due to board geometry. The new square 4 (A4) gets the same play options as all squares of the game board - 4 (A4) is considered equal.

This means that the squares a4/4 (A4) must first be seen independently. These independent fields get an additional function when they work together and act as a switch, as described.

I didn't say anything different. We're in agreement that the spaces composing a switch are separate from each other. But since they cannot be simultaneously occupied, and occupation of one space blocks movement through the other, and they share a common edge and a common corner, they also function in some ways like the same space.

It is possible to agree on the sides from which the switch should be accessible. We have clarified access from below and from the side, access from above is also not a problem and is already part of my proposal. The only question is whether it is access to the switch as a unit or to the individual square of a switch. According to my intention, the second applies.

Agreed. Use of the switch as a switch is possible only from below. That is due to the nature of how it works. If a piece moves to a switch through a diagonal move or a Knight move, it will have to stop on the switch, which will prevent it from using the switch to alter the direction of its movement. The same is true if a Rook or Queen moves to a switch from the side. It will have to stop there, which will prevent its use as a switch. And if a Rook or Queen moves to a switch from above, it will have only one path through the switch. So, it won't be utilizing the switch as a switch. This shows that access to the spaces composing a switch is a completely different matter than using it as a switch.

"Allow pieces access to the spaces of a switch from any direction, and when a piece moves to a switch, allow capture of any piece on the switch even if the capturing piece moves to the other space. For example, if a bishop is on A4, and a Rook moves to a4, consider the Bishop on A4 to be captured."

As described, access to the switch from all sides is not a problem. It is possible to agree on the proposal, but it does not fit my intention. However, if the game becomes more playable and programmable - so what.

What I'm proposing fits with the rule that both spaces of a switch cannot be occupied at the same time and the rule that occupancy of either space blocks vertical movement through the switch even when that movement would technically be going through the other space in the switch.

To the Knight: I can't allow anything here, but I can say what my point of view is. If we stick to the fact that the squares of a switch should be seen separately, then knight moves ending on the same line are not possible. However, as the game becomes more playable and programmable, compromises should be possible.

We could just say that because of the way that switches affect the geometry of the board, some spaces may be reached by either a vertical move or a Knight move. This would also correct the injustice done to the Knight of making the weakest piece even weaker around a switch while it gives all other pieces greater mobility.

"One last rule change I would suggest is to let Rooks, Queens, and Kings use their ability to move horizontally to switch between the spaces constituting the switch. This would basically involve lifting one more restriction on movement to the spaces making up a switch. "

I have problems with that. I have emphasized that the squares of a switch represent independent squares. This would rather mean that moves between the squares of a switch are possible.

Precisely.

The independence of the squares on the one hand and the functionality of a switch on the other compete with each other. Regarding the direct change between the squares of a switch, I tend towards the superordinate function, so a direct change should not be possible.

Allowing a piece that can move horizontally to move from one space to the other in a switch as a normal move does not affect the functioning of the switch. While the piece is on either space, other pieces can't pass through the switch, and once the piece leaves the switch, pieces will be able to pass through it again.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 07:23 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 05:51 PM:

You're right. I have disregarded the change between the 4th and 5th rank. I fell into my own trap :).


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 07:07 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 03:30 PM:

You can agree on almost everything, certainly to make the game playable and programmable. Regardless of that, I can only say my point of view and describe my intentions.

"A switch is an overlapping pair of spaces that in some ways operate together as a single space."

From my point of view it looks different. The square a4 of a switch is an independent square and is completely identical to the square a4 in normal chess. 4 (A4) is a composite square consisting of a half and triangle part of a4 and the new triangle due to board geometry. The new square 4 (A4) gets the same play options as all squares of the game board - 4 (A4) is considered equal.

This means that the squares a4/4 (A4) must first be seen independently. These independent fields get an additional function when they work together and act as a switch, as described.

My intention is therefore not compatible with the proposal to merge fields 4/a4 (A4) as proposed by Jean-Louis.

It is possible to agree on the sides from which the switch should be accessible. We have clarified access from below and from the side, access from above is also not a problem and is already part of my proposal. The only question is whether it is access to the switch as a unit or to the individual square of a switch. According to my intention, the second applies.

"Allow pieces access to the spaces of a switch from any direction, and when a piece moves to a switch, allow capture of any piece on the switch even if the capturing piece moves to the other space. For example, if a bishop is on A4, and a Rook moves to a4, consider the Bishop on A4 to be captured."

As described, access to the switch from all sides is not a problem. It is possible to agree on the proposal, but it does not fit my intention. However, if the game becomes more playable and programmable - so what.

To the Knight: I can't allow anything here, but I can say what my point of view is. If we stick to the fact that the squares of a switch should be seen separately, then knight moves ending on the same line are not possible. However, as the game becomes more playable and programmable, compromises should be possible.

"One last rule change I would suggest is to let Rooks, Queens, and Kings use their ability to move horizontally to switch between the spaces constituting the switch. This would basically involve lifting one more restriction on movement to the spaces making up a switch. "

I have problems with that. I have emphasized that the squares of a switch represent independent squares. This would rather mean that moves between the squares of a switch are possible. The independence of the squares on the one hand and the functionality of a switch on the other compete with each other. Regarding the direct change between the squares of a switch, I tend towards the superordinate function, so a direct change should not be possible. At least that's my intention. But here, too, compromises determine reality.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 05:51 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 04:31 PM:

Move 17: N a4-c3 doesn't seem legal, but N a4-c2 would be legal.

It looks legal to me. Why wouldn't this move be legal? Meanwhile, a4 and c2 are along a diagonal, and N a4-c2 would definitely be illegal.

N a4-c3

Move 25: N f5-c4 doesn't seem legal in same way, but N f5-d4 would be legal again.

N f5-c4 is a perfectly legal Knight move, and I see no reason why it would be illegal. Meanwhile, f5 and d4 are diagonally adjacent, and N f5-d4 is clearly illegal.

N f5-c4

When you're examining the moves, be sure to click on Record, paste the moves into the box, and click on View. This will let you view each position. I think you made some wrong judgements, because you got confused about how notation for this game works. Vertical movement shifts to an adjacent file as it goes between the 4th and 5th ranks. So, the space immediately above d4 is e4, for example.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 04:59 PM UTC:

I have started writing up a brief summary of the rules to appear underneath the board for Game Courier.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 04:31 PM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 03:10 PM:

The moves B a4–c2; R a6–4 are legal moves, they are conform to the rules.

Move 17: N a4-c3 doesn't seem legal, but N a4-c2 would be legal.

Move 25: N f5-c4 doesn't seem legal in same way, but N f5-d4 would be legal again.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 03:30 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 06:32 AM:

According to my definition, the switch can only be operated from 'below'. After that, the move N c5-A4 would not be possible.

A switch is an overlapping pair of spaces that in some ways operate together as a single space. By their very nature, they operate as a switch only from a given direction. From below, a piece is given two choices for how to continue its vertical movement. However, this property of a switch is not a property of the individual spaces whose overlap constitutes the switch. So, restrictions on movement to A4 have nothing to do with your definition of a switch. They are simply arbitrary restrictions on movement.

There are already other examples of A4 being reachable from above. For example, a Rook or Queen on a8 could move to A4, and a Bishop or Queen on e8 could move diagonally to A4. You have also agreed that it makes sense to let it be reachable from the side.

I'm now going to propose some rule changes. Since the switch can make a piece more powerful, this should be balanced by making a piece using a switch more vulnerable. Allow pieces access to the spaces of a switch from any direction, and when a piece moves to a switch, allow capture of any piece on the switch even if the capturing piece moves to the other space. For example, if a Bishop is on A4, and a Rook moves to a4, consider the Bishop on A4 to be captured.

Currently, the Knight is the only piece whose powers of movement are restricted in the vicinity of a switch. Correct this by allowing a Knight to move to any space that can be reached by a step in an orthogonal direction followed by a step in an outward diagonal direction, or by a step in a diagonal direction followed by a step in an outward orthogonal direction. This is the normal definition for how a Knight moves in Chess and other variants, and it would allow the Knight to also increase its capabilities in the vicinity of a switch.

One last rule change I would suggest is to let Rooks, Queens, and Kings use their ability to move horizontally to switch between the spaces constituting the switch. This would basically involve lifting one more restriction on movement to the spaces making up a switch.


Bn Em wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 03:10 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 07:02 AM:

It is probably appropriate to add that the switch can be operated not only from 'below' but also from the side.

Seeing as it can also be operated from ‘above’ too, if not already occupied (i.e. from my understanding, B a4–c2; R a6–4 is legal), I would agree that'd make sense.

  1. N a4-c3 ---> N a4-c2
  1. N f5-c4 ---> N f5-d4

?? Are those corrections? Aren't those diagonal moves, the way you've assigned file labels? of two and one steps respectively?


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 07:02 AM UTC in reply to Bn Em from Tue Apr 19 09:23 PM:

"That's interesting; given that a rook is allowed to move sideways from 4 onto b4 and beyond, that means that a rook on 4 can threaten a rook on b4 without being attacked back. Is this intentional?"

That doesn't seem logical indeed.

Assuming a rook is on 4 and an opponent's rook is on e4, my definition means that the rook on 4 can attack the rook on e4, but the reverse is not possible. That's inconsistent. It is probably appropriate to add that the switch can be operated not only from 'below' but also from the side. This would eliminate the inconsistency.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 06:35 AM UTC in reply to Bn Em from Tue Apr 19 09:23 PM:

"En Bw" - sorry, won't happen again.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 06:32 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 02:18 AM:
  1. N c5-A4

According to my definition, the switch can only be operated from 'below'. After that, the move N c5-A4 would not be possible. N d5-a4 would be possible. However, in my reply to Bn Em I proposed an extension of my definition.

  1. N a4-c3 ---> N a4-c2

  2. N f5-c4 ---> N f5-d4


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Apr 20, 2022 02:18 AM UTC:

I'm done working on Chess66 for Game Courier today. The directions are looking good, but I still have to adapt the Pawns to work with switches, and I still have to prevent double occupancy of the switches. Since Firefox won't remember this after I shut down my computer, here are the moves I've been making to test things out. In the meantime, feel free to check it out, and apart from the issues I just mentioned I still need to work on, let me know if you find any illegal moves it permits or any legal moves it doesn't permit.

1. P c2-c4 
1... p f7-f5 
2. Q d1-A4 
2... q e8-H5 
3. Q A4-a7 
3... p f5-e4 
4. N b1-a3 
4... q H5-e5 
5. P c4-d5 
5... q e5-d4 
6. N a3-c5 
6... p e7-e6 
7. Q a7-a3 
7... b f8-e7 
8. N c5-A4 
8... b e7-g4 
9. P b2-b3 
9... b g4-H5 
10. P b3-b4 
10... q d4-b4 
11. Q a3-g3 
11... p g7-g5 
12. P d5-e6 
12... p g5-f4 
13. Q g3-h7 
13... r h8-h7 
14. N A4-d5 
14... b H5-g6 
15. N g1-h3 
15... n b8-c6 
16. N d5-a4 
16... b g6-h5 
17. N a4-c3 
17... q b4-c5 
18. P e2-e3 
18... b h5-h4 
19. P a2-a3 
19... q c5-h5 
20. N c3-a4 
20... q h5-h6 
21. N a4-c6 // - Check! -
21... p b7-c6 
22. N h3-f4 
22... q h6-e6 
23. N f4-h6 
23... q e6-d5 
24. N h6-f5 
24... n g8-h6 
25. N f5-c4 
25... b h4-e8 
26. P a3-a4

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 10:00 PM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 09:23 PM:

En Bw

I assume you mean me? That's one correct letter out of four, with two more misplaced ;)

The other one was turned upside-down but left in place. So, they're all there with some mix-ups. :)


Bn Em wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 09:23 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 06:39 PM:

A rook/queen on the rank 4 can only occupy square a4 and not square 4. This applies to the switch h5/5 vice versa.

That's interesting; given that a rook is allowed to move sideways from 4 onto b4 and beyond, that means that a rook on 4 can threaten a rook on b4 without being attacked back. Is this intentional?

The squares 4 and 5 do not have a uniform color. The squares are each composed of both colors.

Strictly speaking, the colours on the squares are a representational convention and bear no real influence on the game; ‘a bishop can change colour’ is equivalent to saying a bishop can reach the whole board, or in other words all squares are effectively the same colour. But that's a minor quibble

En Bw

I assume you mean me? That's one correct letter out of four, with two more misplaced ;)

I don't think that the moves to a5 and b5 are legal since they are on the same line.

That's one of the few things which changes depending on the knight‐move definition; the definition you've chosen would indeed exclude both destinations, as a queen can reach both of those squares; but the more usual definitions H.G. first brought up (either two othrogonal steps in one direction and one at right angles, or (my preferred expression) one orthogonal and one diagonally outwards — in either order (or not…?) and for some suitable definition of ‘outwards’) would probably allow both moves. Equally the question of whether N h4–g6 is legal, and probably other similar moves, is implicated there. There may be some way of defining the knight move to include only a subset of the moves in question, but that's unltimately for Gerd to decide if he wants to look for (or someone else to contribute if they come up w/ sth).


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 06:39 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 05:50 PM:

I don't think that the moves to a5 and b5 are legal since they are on the same line. Merging the squares 4 and a4 would not change that. On the contrary, the possibility of being able to detect movements on the same line or the same diagonal would be diluted.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 05:50 PM UTC:

I'm testing my code for Chess66 on Game Courier right now, and with a Knight on a3, I currently have its legal moves as a5, c5, c4, c2, and b1. Because 4 is right above it, it looks like b5 could be another legal move by going over 4 and a5 and turning right to b5. It could be argued that this is illegal because there is a single-direction path from a3 to b5. But if that rules that out, it might also rule out a5 as a legal move, because there is a single-direction path to it through 4.

Chess66 Knight on a3


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 04:59 PM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 01:52 PM:

Dear En Bw, thank you for your comment, which is absolutely correct.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 04:56 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 04:28 PM:

I try to follow. So a Rook cannot go from a4 to 4. And I understood that if there is a piece on a4, it is not possible to have another piece on 4.

At the end I wonder if this game is simply playable. I wouldn't be able to explain it to anyone I'm afraid.

I'm pretty sure that it would be possible to build something interesting on Gernd's idea by melting the cells a4 & 4, as well as h5 & 5. Which was similar to HG's diagram.

Doing this

  • only 1 piece allowed on a4/4 or on h5/5
  • a Rook on a1 would threat up to b8 AND a8 (as wished by Gernd)
  • a Rook on h4 would threat up to a4/4
  • a Bishop on d1 would go up to a4/4
  • a Bishop on a4/4 would either go to f8 (keeping the color) or to d8 (switching the color).
  • a Knight on a4/4 could go to b6, c5, a6, c6, b3, a2, b2, c3 (interesting)
  • Chess 66 would have 64 cells which is maybe the real problem.

💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 04:49 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 04:08 PM:

"So, I gather that the following are all legal moves:

B d1-4, B 4-d1, B e8-5, B 5-e8"

That is absolutely correct.

"So, it looks like the diagonal from 4 to the first rank is a different color than 4, and the diagonal that goes from 5 to the last rank is a different color than 5, and that is how the color changing is done."

By the way: The squares 4 and 5 do not have a uniform color. The squares are each composed of both colors. This is the only way to make a color change possible.


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 04:28 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 04:11 PM:

I had already answered that before, as follows:

A rook/queen on the rank 4 can only occupy square a4 and not square 4. This applies to the switch h5/5 vice versa.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 04:11 PM UTC:

Suppose I have a Rook on d4. Could it move to 4? Or could it only move as far as a4? Likewise, could a Rook on d5 move to 5, or could it only move as far as g5?


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 04:08 PM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 01:52 PM:

The move sequences given by Gerd in his comment are B d1–4; B 4–b5 and B d1–5; B 5–g6.

So, I gather that the following are all legal moves:

  • B d1-4
  • B 4-d1
  • B e8-5
  • B 5-e8

I think I misread an earlier answer. This actually describes one move on black spaces and the other move on white spaces:

If the bishop is on 4, then his path goes via b5, c6, d7 to e8. In the other direction it goes via b3, c2 to d1.

So, it looks like the diagonal from 4 to the first rank is a different color than 4, and the diagonal that goes from 5 to the last rank is a different color than 5, and that is how the color changing is done.


Bn Em wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 01:52 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 01:02 PM:

a series of moves in the generic rule-blind style of notation I used earlier

The move sequences given by Gerd in his comment are B d1–4; B 4–b5 and B d1–5; B 5–g6. He also notes that B d1–h5 is not legal, but B d1–a4 is.

How come the Bishop goes from 5 to g6?

The top corners and the top and left sides are shared between h5 and 5, but the bottom side and corners are different. So 5 behaves as h5 from above (and cannot be occupied at the same time as it), and so is diagonally adjacent to g6.

When the Bishop goes from 5 to g6, is it affected if another piece stands on h5?

5 and h5 cannot be occupied simultaneously, so this situation does not arise. But since both are diagonally adjacent (by the same corner) to g6, it would presumably be fine if they could.


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 01:02 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 09:15 AM:

Does that answer your question?

No, it does not. I specifically asked for a series of moves, and I didn't get that. What will answer my question is a series of moves in the generic rule-blind style of notation I used earlier. You do not have to write anything in English to answer this question.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 12:08 PM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 09:15 AM:

The more it's explained, the less I understand. The "a bit difficult" seems soft in my case. Here,

"Bishop on d1 to the right: The move can go up to 5 (and not h5, this square cannot be occupied). The next move can be continued via g6, f7 etc"

How come the Bishop goes from 5 to g6?

You said h5 cannot be occupied (by this Bishop I presume).

When the Bishop goes from 5 to g6, is it affected if another piece stands on h5?


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 09:15 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 07:58 AM:

Let me emphasize again: A change between 4 on a4 or h5 and 5 is not possible.

Some examples.

Bischoff on d1 to the left:

Standing on a4 after the move, a color transfer is not possible. Standing on 4 after the move, then a color transfer is possible. Because from there you can continue in the next move via b5, c6 etc., a color change has taken place.

Bishop on d1 to the right:

The move can go up to 5 (and not h5, this square cannot be occupied). The next move can be continued via g6, f7 etc. There has also been a color change.

For the other half of the board everything is vice versa.

Does that answer your question?


🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 07:58 AM UTC in reply to Gerd Degens from 06:57 AM:

By what series of moves can a Bishop change to spaces of the other color?


💡📝Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 06:57 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 12:04 AM:

The separation of the squares 4/a4 and h5/5 in the switches applies to all game pieces, including pawns.

Maybe I can clarify again from my point of view, especially for the knight:

A choice between the squares 4/a4 and h5/5 only goes in one direction. If a piece starts from a1/a2/a3 or from d1, c2 and so on, then there is a choice between squares 4 and a4, whereby the positioning must be clearly on 4 or a4. This means that the choice in a switch is only possible from 'below'. A rook/queen on the rank 4 can only occupy square a4 and not square 4. This applies to the switch h5/5 vice versa.

To clarify with the knight: A knight on 5 can move as shown in figure 10. Knights on g7 or f6 can occupy 5 or h5 because they come from 'below'. A knight on e4 can only reach h5 and not 5. A knight on g3 can only reach 5 but not h5. And a knight on f4 can move to 5 but not to h5.

This means that the squares of a switch are always seen separately and not partially as a same space.

It might be a bit difficult, but I hope it's consistent.


PowerChess A game information page
. Chess with two extra squares on the middle rows.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡Gerd Degens wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 06:12 AM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from Mon Apr 18 09:48 PM:

My variants PowerChess and Chess 69 from earlier years are no longer valid. The two websites no longer exist. They should be deleted at Chess Variant Pages. Thanks for the reminder.


Chess 66. Board based on the 8x8 arrangement - with the difference that 66 fields are now available. (8x8, Cells: 66) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Apr 19, 2022 02:06 AM UTC:

Since a Bishop that moves to 4 could immediately switch to a4, is the reverse also true? Could a Bishop moving to a4 immediately switch to 4? More generally, is switching between these spaces available for any piece or only for Bishops?


63 comments displayed

LatestLater Reverse Order EarlierEarliest

Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.