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4*Chess (four dimensional chess). Four dimensional chess using sixteen 4x4 boards & 96 pieces. (4x(4x(4x4)), Cells: 256) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Sep 2, 2023 10:34 PM UTC:

I recently edited this CVs Rules Page by correcting formatting changes that resulted from a systemic change to CVP site long ago. The spacing of many of my rules pages went off as a result, so I used HTML coding ('(p)' and (/p)) in places with edits to correct all that (instead of '()' think <>). A total of 11 of my rules pages needed editing, it seems, including Sac Chess' Rules Page (I did other editing for that one too, such as some deletions).

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sun, Aug 27, 2023 06:14 PM UTC in reply to CarCar0 from Sat Aug 26 09:29 PM:

Thanks for rating this CV. While I've seen the 4th dimensional piece called a Balloon in more than one source in the past (the Unicorn is the 3D piece), I'm not aware if anyone has named the 5th dimensional piece. Former CVP editor Joe Joyce is knowledgeable about higher dimensional CVs (i.e. 3D and beyond), and he may know if such a 5D piece already has been given a name.

edit: here's a link to a six-dimensional CV, for the curious:

CarCar0 wrote on Sat, Aug 26, 2023 09:29 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Your current set-up can be described as the following: an architect’s plan for a four story building, and there are four such buildings. My question is this: imagine these four buildings lined up next to each other as they would be in the 3D modeling of your game, in addition to this, could we quadruple the entire set up so that there were, for the sake of example, 4 rows of 4, four-story buildings? If we did create what would be 5D spatial chess, what would the initial board set-up look like? What would the new 5th dimensional piece be called? Thank you so much for your effort on these variants.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Thu, Nov 17, 2016 12:34 AM UTC:

At the end of the Notes section I've now added a setup diagram for an alternative 4D variant that I've suggested that's called "Slim 4*Chess", which has the same rules as 4*Chess, except it uses slightly less pieces (i.e. 80, instead of 96).

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Aug 21, 2016 11:55 PM UTC:

Wikipedia says that Internet Explorer 8 supports PNG but has still some issues with it. Unfortunately, IE8 is the latest version you can run on XP. If Firefox is not working out for you on XP, you could try Chrome.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sun, Aug 21, 2016 09:03 PM UTC:

Hi Fergus

After your advice, I see that my desktop's old browser is Windows Internet Explorer, Version 8.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Aug 21, 2016 06:52 PM UTC:

I think you can find a version number by looking at the About item in the Help menu.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sun, Aug 21, 2016 05:53 PM UTC:

Hi Fergus

Using my desktop's old browser (Windows Internet Explorer [can't figure out what version], as used on Windows XP), I suppose can see all of the diagrams (the diagram with abstract pieces, and the photos of real-life sets) on the Gross Chess webpage (which, due to my old browser has a fatal error message at the bottom of it, preventing me from viewing or making any Comments).

I'm hesitant to experiment with any of my desktop's settings, since I can just use my laptop with Firefox on it instead when I see I'm missing something I should see on the Chess Variant Pages. I'm still pretty much all thumbs with modern computers, and it took my old man some time to fix my desktop after I tried Firefox with it before. Still, I can try to provide more info if you're curious.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Aug 21, 2016 03:03 PM UTC:

My old browser did show me many (but not all) of the diagrams (PGN ones, I guess) for this variant's webpage, as I alluded to earlier.

The script will display a diagram as either a JPG or a PNG file, depending on how many colors the image uses. But your browser would have to be very old, such as Internet Explorer 6 or earlier, to not display PNG images. In case you aren't sure whether you have PNG support, check whether you can see the diagram on the Gross Chess page, which is a PNG file. If you are able to view PNG files, then it might be a problem with your internet connection.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Aug 20, 2016 02:28 AM UTC:

Hi Fergus

My old browser did show me many (but not all) of the diagrams (PGN ones, I guess) for this variant's webpage, as I alluded to earlier. I find my old desktop computer more comfortable to use, especially if for a long time, with my neck & back troubles, but when I once tried Firefox with this computer, it caused crashes for it, for whatever reason. So, I'll use my laptop (with Firefox) when I wish to do more things with the Chess Variant Pages, or Game Courier.

Btw, I'm not moving from my apartment in Ottawa, for this year at least, so I feel more free to play online slow games if I wish to again. I'll study Game Courier's time control features at some point, as I couldn't understand them all when looking at the instructions briefly, at least. I felt comfortable playing Carlos with the unlimited time allowed to move time control, anyway (don't know if there was a finite number of days/weeks that were alotted before a player forfeited all the same, though).

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Aug 19, 2016 09:05 PM UTC:

Perhaps your old browser is so old it doesn't display PNG images.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Fri, Aug 19, 2016 08:07 PM UTC:

Another note to Fergus: when viewing this webpage's many diagrams from my laptop, i.e. with a more modern Firefox browser, I can now see all of the diagrams (unlike from my desktop computer, with its old browser). The same goes for Comments for Circular Chess' webpage when viewing from my laptop (i.e. the error message I see when using my old desktop is no longer there). However, the problem I mentioned about the Chess Variant Pages main webpage is real enough regardless.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Thu, Aug 18, 2016 07:41 PM UTC:

I've now added some justification for my chosen values for the pieces in this variant.

As an observation for Fergus, lately some of the diagrams haven't been showing up properly when I've visited this game's webpage (the many diagrams all used to do so at times in the past, and I haven't changed any of them in any way). Also, I've noticed that when a 'Comment' is posted re: anything, at the same time the main Chess Variant Pages webpage indicates that some item has been 'Rated', too, which is not the case.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Thu, Jan 21, 2016 12:34 AM UTC:
I've now removed all remaining unwanted primitive (ASCII) diagrams from my 4*Chess submission, replacing them with Diagram Designer generated diagrams that still show possible legal moves on an empty 4D board by all the various piece types.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Tue, Jan 12, 2016 04:50 AM UTC:
I solved my problem using H.G.'s method (to show single piece images from the Diagram Designer in a submission) by using quotes around the URL & using uppercase for IMG SRC, in a test I carried out. The piece image I chose to test out (in this submission, temporarily modifying it by editing) was shown all by itself, underlined as in the Diagram Designer. [edit: I meant to show this post, more fittingly, in another thread.]

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Tue, Jan 12, 2016 01:26 AM UTC:
I've now removed an unwanted primitive diagram from my 4*Chess submission, and showed piece images in the piece descriptions instead. I've also edited my Sac Chess submission diagrams to show proper Centaur symbols (for what I called "Judges").

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sun, Jan 10, 2016 03:14 AM UTC:
A belated thank you to Fergus for your considerable work on your example (for me) of a 4D variant diagram generated by the Diagram Designer (I may have been pretty tired that day). I'll try to eventually get around to various edits to some of my past submissions that were accepted, e.g. to show definite Abstract: All piece set Centaur piece symbols in diagrams for my Sac Chess entry.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Thu, Dec 24, 2015 08:23 PM UTC:
Earlier I wrote:

"...what I chose to represent a Unicorn seems fairly okay to me, as the animal (whatever it is ) at least shows one pretty straight looking horn as far as I can tell, though at the least the head is rather thick for it to be horse-like - but possibly this is a blessing when trying to tell the piece easily apart from a knight in a given diagram."

Fwiw, in looking up the mythical animal 'Unicorn', I discovered that sometimes one can be goat-like (instead of horse-like):

An example of a goat with a beard, such as what might be shown by the animal symbol I used to represent a Unicorn in my diagrams, would be an Irish white goat. That's if ignoring the possibly single horn in my chosen animal symbol (to perhaps tell better if a single horn is the case, I think I can actually make out part of the animal's far eye by looking closely, in the case of a White piece version at least). Within the following link besides the Irish white goat I also noticed examples of another breed, namely a mother with her kids, which had both thick heads and thick necks:

One more thing I came across elsewhere on the web was a mention that the length and thickness of a Unicorn's horn can vary.

Disconcertingly for me, all this seems to go against a convention in fairy chess circles to show Unicorns as horse-like. That is, as Knights with long thin single horns that are as long as, e.g., from an eye to the mouth. However, I was happy to have any sort of moral support for my depiction of a Unicorn (aside from a Balloon) in my diagrams, with the available Diagram Designer piece sets that I had to choose from. :)

[edit: in checking the 'Properties' of the animal image shown as a Unicorn in my diagrams, it's used to represent a Gnu normally it would seem. Joke's on me. :) ]

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Wed, Dec 23, 2015 05:46 AM UTC:
I have now replaced most of the old crude diagrams in my 4*Chess submission with Diagram Designer generated ones. That is, except for leaving in the one for the Setup position (now with appropriate alternating square colour patterning), and leaving in the ones illustrating legal moves by individual pieces on a vacant 4D board (these are also corrected for patterning), as a possible aid to the viewer. 

I may have missed how, but after some reading of the documentation I could not see a way for the Diagram Designer to show non-piece symbols on the actual board cells in a generated diagram, such as showing a letter 'X' (e.g. I used such in my crude diagram of a 4*Chess King's legal moves), though using the Designer for this purpose was not much of a priority for me. In addition, I have slightly altered the 4D board notation system I used for the diagrams, in attempting to improve them in this regard.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Tue, Dec 22, 2015 05:10 AM UTC:
Refering to my last post, what I chose to represent a Unicorn seems fairly okay to me, as the animal (whatever it is ) at least shows one pretty straight looking horn as far as I can tell, though at the least the head is rather thick for it to be horse-like - but possibly this is a blessing when trying to tell the piece easily apart from a knight in a given diagram. 

In any case, I saw that the Diagram Designer setting (for 'Set') that is 'Small pieces for large boards' actually has a Unicorn (knight with one horn) perfectly represented (but nothing available resembling a balloon).

Out of curiosity mainly, can you tell me if there is a simple way to include (on one or more cells represented within a single diagram generated by the Diagram Designer) just one fairy chess piece type's image from one setting for 'Set', besides using all the other fairy chess piece type images from one other setting for 'Set' (e.g. to switch just the piece image I used to represent Unicorns with the Unicorn image from 'Small pieces for large boards', if I decided to)?

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Dec 22, 2015 01:59 AM UTC:
There are so many Alfaerie pieces, you won't find them all in the same set unless you use a really large set, such as "Alfaerie: Many" or "Auto All Alfaerie". The Unicorn can be seen in the "Alfaerie: Animal Pieces" set, though I don't think anyone has added a Balloon piece to the Alfaerie set.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Tue, Dec 22, 2015 01:28 AM UTC:
Hi Fergus

I couldn't somehow see at all which option possibly corresponded to a Unicorn (or 'horned knight') in the Alfaerie set as given, if I'm using the Diagram Designer right, though I'm not sure what you meant by 'horned knight'. However, in choosing 'Cazaux Graphics' as a setting for the 'Set' field in the Designer, I found what I thought were nicer images for both the Unicorn and the Balloon, for within what I gave as a second Diagram Designer diagram for the start position of 4*Chess (in the Setup box) of my once again edited submission for it. I left in my first Designer generated diagram, using the Abstract pieces and different 2D Board checkering patterning (for purposes of comparison), for the time being.

Regretably, my earlier 20 or so crude diagrams all have the checkering pattern I initially preferred for 4*Chess, though I imagine it won't be too much trouble to compare them with any future Diagram Designer diagrams that I add to my submission, if I leave in all or some of the crude diagrams indefinitely.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 10:35 PM UTC:
The Unicorn piece you're using is for David Paulowich's Unicorn, which moves as a Bishop or a Nightrider. That's why it combines the Bishop and Nightrider images. It does not represent the 3D Unicorn. The Unicorn in the Alfaerie set would be better suited, because it is just a horned horse.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 10:29 PM UTC:
While I'm not familiar with what convention there might be, what I consider logical is to checker it in a way such that anytime a Rook makes a one space move, it changes color. So, 2D sections of the board would alternate their checker pattern in what is itself a checker pattern. This checkering pattern would also keep Bishops on the same color.

💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Mon, Dec 21, 2015 07:48 PM UTC:
I'm okay with leaving the diagram as it is, if it's not too objectionable. I tried changing the Border Size using the Diagram Designer as suggested, but only the outer left and outer top border were affected, i.e. otherwise not at all changing the thicker spacing between the small 2D boards (which I called mini-boards). At least I was able to make much use of the HTML code string I had pasted earlier into my webpage submission page, by cutting & pasting the part relevant to the FEN string, when using the Diagram Designer from scratch (I deleted certain parts & replaced then with '/' where I had to, though). I did something similar in the way of cutting & pasting the file and rank labels. Otherwise I had to set the fields (e.g. for the number of Columns) from scratch again where appropriate. The whole process was not nearly as time consuming as when I generated my diagram the first time from the Diagram Designer.

In spite of the above, I am wondering if there is an existing or unwritten convention as far as how the checkering of the 2D boards alternates. Almost all the webpages with 4x4x4x4 4D chess variants on this website were submitted to have the checkering alternating kind of like in your example, Fergus, much like there is a convention for this in 3D chess variants apparently. Still, I did notice one 4x4x4x4 variant on this website that had the 2D boards checkered the way I have them at the moment (some other such 4x4x4x4 variants had diagrams that used no colours for checkering at all!). As I say, do you or anyone else have strong feelings on the checkering of the 2D boards? Personally, I found calculating when playing decades ago using the checkering I have for 2D boards to be natural enough in that it did not offend my sensibilities somehow, at least.

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