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Would you please send me the price list? Thanks! ([email protected])
I have MS Office both at home and work, so I could likely read the file and translate to another format if you send it to me. The email account in my member record is still current.
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Dec 23, 2015 07:41 AM UTC:You could be right. As I said, I am not able to read the price list, as it is in .doc format. I just thought he supplied equipment for all variants described in his leaflets.
I have been out of touch for years, but I don't think George ever made Taikyoku sets. Tai Shogi sets for sure, since I have one, but none larger.
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Dec 22, 2015 09:33 AM UTC:Sorry, my bad. The domain was talk21.com, not talk12.com.
<p>
George died for sure, but his widow, Angela Hodges, continues his business. I ordered a CD-ROM with the Middle Shogi Manual from here last year. I still have the pricelists in both euros and sterling attached to the e-mails, but they are .doc files, so I cannot read them. So I cannot tell you off hand whether taikyoku sets are still in supply, and what the prices are.
The image you gave is one of the board after set-up; However, the pieces in Taikyokushogi are double-sided. I have sent an email to the address you suggested. We'll see. The other thing is that I'm on a somewhat tight budget. I will get back to you as to Mr. Hodges. Oh, look! I just got an email that said that the message was not delivered as the address wasn't valid. If you know anything about this, please tell me.
H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Dec 19, 2015 04:19 PM UTC:> <i>Actually I am having to make my own board, hand drawing all the symbols on paper pieces, because no-one sells them in any way, shape, or form.</i>
<p>
Uh? Are they sold out at The Shogi Association? ( [email protected] )
<p>
Drawing by hand also seems unnecessary; there are on-line versions available that you could print out. E.G. <a href="http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/041/b/1/taikyoku_shogi_2_by_tkr101010-d399ucj.png">here</a>.
Actually I am having to make my own board, hand drawing all the symbols on paper pieces, because no-one sells them in any way, shape, or form. Another thing is that if you google Taikyoku shogi in addition to a couple of images of your search,you will get a lot of images of Tai shogi, which is actually played enough to mention as more than a historic curiosity. Tai shogi is played on a "mere" 25x25 board, but the players still have to use tongs to reach the other side of the board. I was telling my grandmother about Taikyoku shogi, and she suggested that the reason that it disappeared and was forgotten about is that the "three people who played it died". There is no evidence that it was ever widely played. Wonder why. There is however one (1!) youtube video of it.
Actually I am having to make my own board, hand drawing all the symbols on paper pieces, because no-one sells them in any way, shape, or form. Another thing is that if you google Taikyoku shogi in addition to a couple of images of your search,you will get a lot of images of Tai shogi, which is actually played enough to mention as more than a historic curiosity. Tai shogi is played on a "mere" 25x25 board, but the players still have to use tongs to reach the other side of the board. I was telling my grandmother about Taikyoku shogi, and she suggested that the reason that it disappeared and was forgotten about is that the "three people who played it died". There is no evidence that it was ever widely played. Wonder why. There is however one (1!) youtube video of it.
One list of pieces to draw from, to find Predators. And another: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSfairypiecespar.
A step would be one square, so 'five steps' would be five squares in that direction. Stepping is not jumping (it's more like sliding with a limited range) so stepping moves can be blocked the same way a bishop or rook's move can be blocked.
heya, no, i looked at the piece movements and 'steps' cant be just for a single square move, for instance ... Free Demon: steps 5 forward orthogonal or backward orthogonal, slides left orthogonal or right orthogonal or diagonal.
Step, to my understanding, means just moving one square, like an orthodox King. Slide would be what a bishop or a rook does. Jumping is for Knights, etc. You can google some interesting photos of taikyoku shogi boards. They are HUGE! I would not doubt that you'd have to crawl over a board to make a move.
hey, u would have to walk on the board to make move would u? (lol) love how big it is, probably would be hell to play :) what is the difference between 'step' and 'slide', is 'step' different from 'leap', i dont kinda understand.
Mats, I agree that the game itself is complicated, much like many variants found on this site, but I hardly think it is apalling. Mankind naturally gravitates towards bigger and better things. Considering that this was played in the 1600's, it probably was eccentric for its time, but I think after its rediscovery in 1997, it has put a spark in at least some people, including myself. To play and finish a game on the world's largest board game would be the equivalent of a runner training for a marathon, which less than one percent of the world has completed. Apalling... I wouldn't classify it as that. Eccentric... even now, to a degree. Complicated... undoubtedly. Intriguing... to me it is.
I think it's appalling. It is incredibly over the top complicated and makes no sense at all. /Mats
For the longest time, I have been trying to come up with some way to play this. I have tried excel documents, etc. I finally gave up because there are so many different translations to the pieces/rules that you'd be playing a different game just about every game you play. VERY interesting concept, though.. If someone came up with something, I'd be interested in playing it.
RE:flowerman This is the biggest board game
According to http://taikyokushogi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/taikyoku.swf, this mark -|-|-|-> means 'may jump over three pieces on its way'. In this link, get the piece that starts at 20 32 out on the board and look at the forward-diagonal moves: it may move four spaces into the opponents start row, jumping over three pieces- or one, or two, jumping over one, or three, jumping over two.
The biggest Chess variant I know of is David Howe's Mega Chess. At the end, he briefly describes some variants of it that may be even bigger, but the descriptions aren't detailed enough for me to understand them.
What is the biggest variant of shogi?! And what is the biggest variant of chess at all?
you typed the promoted the 'flying goose' as DRAGON KING(!)
How come two groups of pieces have the same promotion?
Capricorn/Poisonous snake - Hook Mover
Peacock/Old Kite - Long-Nosed Goblin
George, I would like to comment on what you said. I personally don't believe the issue is quantity, per-se, it is just that there isn't a systematized way to organized the quantity in a meaningful way. If such a system existed, then you could generate a large number of pieces, and they fit into the large chess variant world. I will say, without organization, there is likely far too much content being generated, that isn't going to get used at all. The lack of a systematized approach, does lead for cases of the Eurasian pawn I entered recently, because it didn't seem to fit anywhere.
The promotees here, numbering over 100, are particularly under-utilized elsewhere. CV Prolificists wanting to enlarge portfolios, we may not have stressed enough that here are over 250 piece-types, ready-made and well-defined, many never before used in other than large and very large Shogis, as Taikyoku Shogi. Why not incorporate these within 8x8, 8x10, 10x10 pairwise taking mixes of specific quartets, quintets, to balance the sides, both across and along, of starting arrays symmetrically. Many tens of thousands of new games would easily become available. Like Frank Truelove's piece list of several thousand pieces, those defined in Prichard's 'ECV' 1994 and Dickens' 'Guide to Fairy Chess' 1967, this article too by Umebayashi and Smith should become standard fare for your building blocks -- way beyond the Betza atoms five.
Here are over 250 piece-types within one game for your new combinations. Taikyoku Shogi has more pieces than Mujotai Shogi. Are any of them worth a second look? [Follow-up below brackets] Treasure Turtle (233 last) is (D+W+F) in Western terms.
I know a website which you can play free: http://taikyokushogi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/taikyoku.html (hope you can read japanese because its all japanese and i can't)
There are a few characters that is displayed as boxes in my browser.
Donna Porter wrote on Sat, Mar 24, 2007 02:59 PM UTC:Hello, My question really does not have to do with your website (I apologize for this). What I am hoping you can assist me with is Mr. Patrick Davin's current email address: I am looking for the 'other' side of my family (my mother is Japanese, she married an American after WWII), and in searching the internet, the only reference I came upon for a possible connection is that Patrick referenced Mr. Noboru Otomo 9-dan, who I believe may be my uncle. Do you know of anyone who might have Patrick's current email address? This may help me in trying to find my family. Thank you for possibly helping me out. Sincerely, Donna Porter Huntsville AL U.S.A. email: [email protected]
That was mentioned farther down in the comments, on 2004-9-22, I think.
there is a flash version of this game for all of you who would like to play http://taikyokushogi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/taikyoku.html the site is in japanes and doesn't recognize check maybe you could add it on as a link
Joe Joyce wrote on Thu, Sep 28, 2006 02:36 AM UTC:You could try printing on label paper. I've had good success with that method. You can print on large [8.5' x 11'] label sheets. Print a narrow circle just less than the size of the chip around each piece as a cutting guide. Cut the label sheet with the backing still on, then peel each piece and stick it on the chip. Keep the label on the top of the chip, don't let it wrap over the side as this allows it to peel off rather easily with use. Scotch makes a packaging tape that's 2' wide, very thin and clear, and comes in a very good dispenser with a 'brake' so you can get the correct length easily and reduce wastage. This can be put on the label before cutting to seal and make your pieces water resistant; very good if you used water-soluble printer ink. This is a reasonably cheap way to make fairly decent pieces.
Try sealing the paper images in adhesive tape. Then bond them to the plastic chip.
I made a mistake by accidentally omitting the 'Gold General' as a playing piece. I finally went over the last checklist tonight only to discover that this piece was missing. I fixed the 'mistake' on page 7 and integrated the previously missing 'Gold General' onto that page. I've verified the position of each piece and filled out a 'placement chart' to make sure I wasn't accidentally setting up the game with one piece overlapping another.
I found a local Dollar store selling 'flat' (ie pro style but really cheap quality) poker chips at 60 pieces per dollar in 3 stacks of 20 with a differnt color per stack. I'll post some images when I have the set made. The colors will be arbitrary to the game though. The real trick to this method is to find a glue that sticks to plastic and paper.
Big_Ole_Bob
well then, if you like big war games, it sounds great
In quick estimation.
Provideing that movement could be easily acomplished without problems due to locations and types of movments.
Provideing that it takes 1/2 a min to move each piece.
That would be roughly 3Hours and 15Min to move each of the 400 pieces.
The other player would also have to be taken into consideration.
That means for either side to move all their pieces once it would take a total of 6Hours and 30Min total.
And that wouldnt be a complete game.
Now, I wonder who is going to make a game courier preset and play this game? I figure that a game will take long enough that one's kids will end up finishing the game. :)
Thanks for the link and excellent design work, which allows us westerners to more easily grasp the Taikyoku Shogi pieces and their wide variety of movement.
Looks like great resource for shogi variant fans. But was unable to download. Message of 'requested site is unavailable or cannot be found.'
Oh, boy, you are going to make a lot of people happy with this. Thanks so much for sharing. Just what I've been looking for! Awesome!
Here is my print-able 'westernized' version of the Taikyoku Shogi Set.
The movement patterns are based off of the descriptions I found here and from wikipedia. Some pieces I know are somewhat oddly described or given a differnt movement type via combineing the move 'this way OR this way' together so those overlapping 'directions' are combined. The entire set is available for download at the following location. All images are to scale for print out based on an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper with 1/2 side margins and 1 inch top & bottom margins. The pages have 'corner dots' which prevent 'streach/resize' programs from adjusting the final image's size after cropping off what it percieves as 'blank' space. This keeps all pages the exact same size each time it's printed. The only exception is the 'title, icon legend, and editors notes' pages which are all in an image format.
http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/robertkalin/tos.html
Please give me some feedback and tell me what you think. Feel free to distribute the set online. All that I request is that it is left unaltered and kept together in the same compressed 'zip' file complete with all pages including the title, icon legend, and editors notes pages.
Big-Ole-Bob
Hey, Bob!!! can you provide a link for your printer tested pieces???? that'd make my day! I'd just like to say... I cant wait to play this game once it's more canonized! Anyone who doesn't like large board shogi variants is afraid of commitment! ;)
A printer tested Piece design has been created. With each piece being a maximum of 1 inch by 1 inch on playing squares of 1.5 x 1.5 that would make the playing field about 4.5 feet across even. For such a small scale the pieces look verry similar to the diagrams seen on this page. The exception is that they are situationed in the middle of a shogi shaped piece which lists, rank (row), starting columns, american translated name, an indicator for 'promoted' or not. and a quick to identify indicator for 'king & crown princes' which included pieces promoted to 'crown prince'. Basicly a 'capture me to win the game' indicator thats easy to see on such a large board with so many pieces. wikipedia has an arcticle on the same game at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taikyoku_shogi This has been helpfull in verifying many of the confuseing moves. only one confuseing question. For range captureing pieces such as king & crown prince etc. Which capture all pieces they jump over both yours and opponents. It is said they can only capture those of a lower ?rank?. Rank is a term often used for a horizontal'row'. is the row a piece placed on also its starting 'RANK'? in reguards to this range captureing process? There would be no need for this range captureing process to be notated in a forward motion if it only reffers to range captureing in a backward motion. (to a lower rank, provided that row 1 closest to player is rank 1) I'm going to make a stab at this strange question. the row or rank a piece starts on is its 'RANK' in reguards to range captureing. this 'RANK' does not change once it moves forward or into differnt positions on the board. I know there is a ranking amoung range captureing piece to preserve an order. But what about in reguards to other pieces? non range captureing pieces. Also it hanst been quite defined. is 1 the highest rank (row), or the lowest? Im confuzled. bob
'3. The Moves of the Pieces.' and '4. The remaining rules:' give all the information we have. Roger Hare's Dai Shogi page (external link) seems to use similar diagrams - it might clarify some points for you.
Does anyone have a proper explanation for the 3 dashed lines? some of the
implementation of illustrations are confuseing. Does anyone have a better
illustration system? Most of the moves are self explanatory but a few are
confuseing to me.
You see I intend to create a graphical set for the pieces. That way you could print out the pieces and mount them on cardboard or foamcore. Each piece would have its name at the bottom edge. a diagram in the middle. rank at the top and a small row beneath it for starting positions.
Tai Shogi is the original intended game but this seems so much more massive and amazing. Right now for ease of computer creation I've taken the images. Listed their english names beside them, starting locations and I'm trying to decode some of the strange diagrams.
I have a few questions.
the X by itself means its jumps directly to that position?
an x with an arrow. does that mean slide (or jump to space #)or slideing with jumps permitted?
the arrow with 3 lines through it?
treacherous Fox has arrows going through single step circles..??
if anybody can help this would make things easier.
big ole bob
Warheart wrote on Tue, Dec 28, 2004 01:01 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★Damn great!!!
Can just anyone tell me where to get real stones and a board? I really need one!!!
If you have information for me please e-mail to [email protected]!
Well, otherwise I guess I have to make my own stones, huh, that'll be a bunch of work to do.
Anyway, ... great!!!
Anonymous wrote on Thu, Sep 30, 2004 02:19 PM UTC:Poor ★there are too many pieces.
Jason wrote on Wed, Sep 22, 2004 05:33 PM UTC:Here we go... This is the link to the 'big' version... Click on Taikyoku.swf beneath the board to play on a smaller version if you need to... Clicking (i think it's right click) on a piece will show you the move set in the upper right of the board area... etc.. ENJOY! http://taikyokushogi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/taikyoku.html That's the bigger board.... AFAIK there's no AI though.... Or none that I could find.... http://taikyokushogi.hp.infoseek.co.jp/taikyoku.swf this is the smaller version... ENJOY I SAY!
Jason wrote on Tue, Sep 21, 2004 05:04 PM UTC:There is a flash version of Taikyoku out there... Anyone interested in the link or do you all already have it? Kind of a late comer...
The basic difference between the Capricorn and the Long-Nosed Goblin is the potential promotion. The Capricorn promotes to the Hook Mover, an orthogonal hook-move piece and more powerful piece as it is no longer bound to a diagonal pattern. The Long-Nosed Goblin does not promote. The promotion potential is what often differentiates pieces of similar initial types of moves. This allows for particular tactics during play, obviously making the promote-able piece more desired than the non-promote-able. And this applies to pieces with similar initial moves which promote to different potential promotions.
Tim Stiles wrote on Wed, Sep 15, 2004 06:57 AM UTC:How come two pieces seem to have the exact same move? Long-Nosed Goblin diagonal hook-move Capricorn diagonal hook-move Or are there lots of duplicates and I just haven't noticed since they're hidden among the masses of different pieces? Heh, I'd like to see a zillions implementation of this.
Some sources note that the ranging move in Taikyoku can involve the capture of each and every piece, both friend and foe, which the ranging piece leaps. And believe it or not, there are a few individuals in Japan actually attempting to play this game.
I have not read all of the pieces, and don't claim the ability to remember
them, but I believe there is another way to play the game. Adrian king
created a visual representation of the moves of a variety of pieces, it
should be possible for someone to do the same thing here.
<p>I’m not sure if anyone has that much free time and patience, but the
possibility does exist. The promoted picture would be on the other side
and you would flip when promoting.
A small omission in the description of the Running Horse, it should read: 'Running Horse steps 1 backward orthogonal, leaps to the second backward diagonal, slides forward orthogonal or forward diagonal' My apologies but with a document of this size there are bound to be a few errata. Hopefully, they are few.
I see no reason to consider this chess variant intimidating to play when considered alongside modern board wargames, some of which have maps using maybe ten thousand hexagonal cells, involve the deployment of literally hundreds of pieces, and require hundreds of hours to play. I believe a veteran wargamer (or 'grognard') would quickly devise a good abstract system to aid in identification of the abilites of each piece and play 'Ultimate' Shogi with no difficulties.
i don't know that this game necessarily ignites any controversy for previous games. there are a lot of pieces in this that are different from the pieces of the same name in other shogi variants, so nothing in this game helps prove anything one way or another. <P> i began making a set a couple years ago but i lost interest because of uncertainties in the rules and because it seems to be mostly a collection of pieces from other variants thrown together with little new. <P>
Anonymous wrote on Sun, Aug 10, 2003 12:51 PM UTC:I somewhat doubt that George H. will sell sets for this one, since the rules presented here contradict the rules he published for Tenjiku Shogi at a couple of points. First, under Hodges' rules, the ranging pieces could not capture or leap over pieces higher in the heirarchy, while as presented here the ranging pieces may not leap over higher pieces, but may capture them. Second, this document sort of re-ignites the Lion Hawk controversy. George Hodges' rules let the Lion Hawk leap to any square within two spaces, but when Colin Adams published his book on the Tenjiku Shogi opening, he noted that it made more sense if the Lion Hawk (a promoted Lion), had full the full doublemoving Lion power. This translation says 'The Lion Hawk, as in Tenjiku Shogi, may move like the Lion or leap to any square which would be attacked by the Lion.' 'move like the Lion' is Colin Adams' interpretation, while 'leap to any square which would be attacked by the Lion' is George Hodges...
RJ wrote on Thu, Jul 10, 2003 04:56 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★Here goes my ranting: I wish I has a way to 'see' the way the pieces move. I could write up the zillons file, but where would i get the graphics for the pieces? I would like to know if this is at all playable! Or is it going to take a week to finish a resonably thought out game? I didn't think tenjiku would be, but I was proved wrong. There's a lot of pieces to sift though here. Are there any pieces that direct the game? (like the lion in chu?)Is George H. planning on selling sets now that there are rules? My carpet needs to be replaced. :)
This is a message to everybody: Please, don´t try a computer implementation of this game. I don´t think the Monks in Pazomian hills are interested on. Neither I am. How many moves are needed for finish a game?. I have not an stimation of the media number, but, gross thinking, it would be more than 20.000 moves, perhaps much more.
The 'legend' is very creative indeed. Maybe its 'true'. It harkens to the appeal of games in the first place, as models of reality which can serve at many levels, simple enjoyment, mechanics, history, philosophy.... It reminds me of Hesse's 'Magister Ludi'.
This game is played not by individuals, but by two competing monasteries, deep in the Pazomian hills, where monks devote their lives to the study of Shogi and its variants. The first (and so far, the only) game was started over 600 years ago, and each monastery has been making two moves a year (with interruptions for crises such as famines and wars); one delivers its moves on the equinoxes, the other, on the solstices. Books have been written analyzing the status of the game; novices study the thinking of the players who have gone before them for years before their opinions are sought for current moves. Most experts feel that they are nearly finished with the opening now. Anyway, it's a nice legend, I think. Course, I did make it up myself.
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The -|-|-|-> symbol may mean slide or move as Lion Dog (from the smaller Shogi variants) in the direction the arrow points, which I got from this article by Eric Silverman: Shogi variants: translation notes (I) | Dr Eric Silverman