Check out Glinski's Hexagonal Chess, our featured variant for May, 2024.


[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ]
[ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ]
[ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]

Comments by HGMuller

LatestLater Reverse Order EarlierEarliest
Grand Apothecary Chess-Modern. Very large Board variant obtained trough tinkering with known games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 6, 2021 01:11 PM EDT:

A remark that applies to all your recent submissions: don't you think 50x50 piece images are too large for these large boards? People that would want to play against the diagram cannot fit the entire board on their display. I seems much beter to use 35x35 images.


Chess with Different Armies. Betza's classic variant where white and black play with different sets of pieces. (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 6, 2021 07:55 AM EDT:

Thank you. I admit that of the armies I designed I like the Silly Sliders best, aesthetically. Unfortunately I couldn't do much testing, as my main PC broke down. I would really like to do some testing on the Onyx; in fact that piece is what gave me the idea for this army. I was looking for a non-colorbound version of the Bishop, for measuring whether the B-pair bonus would really disappear in that case. Because there is an alternative explanation for this bonus, namely that two diagonal slides on opposit square shades cooperate exceptionally well. Playing Bishops against Onyxes in pairs or singletons could decide this matter.

A second point of interest would be whether the penalty for a leap being lame depends on whether the square where the leap can be blocked is attacked by the piece itself, or not. In a sense all distant slider moves are lame leaps, but they cannot be blocked without exposing the blocker to one of those. Playing Onyx + Duck vs Bishop + Rook would be a 'low-noise' experiment for investigating this. Between them they have exactly the same moves, which can be blocked the same way, but the Onyx and Duck do not attack the adjacent blocking squares, while the Bishop and Rook do.

Interesting that the name Duck was used for FDD by Jelliss. This has a very similar footprint. Is it known which variant employed this piece? If i is imporant to keep the distinction between these pieces, I could  change mine to 'Lame Duck'.


Brouhaha. Like Chess, but it really brings the ruckus! (8x8, Cells: 72) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 6, 2021 06:23 AM EDT:

The starting squares of the Scout and Cleric are not Brouhaha squares in the interactive diagram you included. They are not defined as holes, and consequently, when the piece leaves them, they become empty squares, which can be entered again.

Also, is it really the intention that the initial moves of Scout and Cleric can also capture?


Grand Apothecary Chess-Modern. Very large Board variant obtained trough tinkering with known games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 6, 2021 05:42 AM EDT in reply to Aurelian Florea from 05:25 AM:

There is a linefeed missing between King and Rook in the diagram definition.


Asymmetric Chess. Chess with alternative units but classical types and mechanics. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 6, 2021 05:19 AM EDT in reply to x x from Wed May 5 06:37 PM:

The AI responds with knight to c6, ignoring the check.

OK, fixed. Thanks for spotting this. The problem was in the j prefix for indicating ski-slides. (The alternative definition gyafW did work without problems.) The Betza parser splits such a move into 2 legs, one to jump over the adjacent square, and a remaining normal slide. But it adapts the range of that slide by subtracting 1 (so that jR4 moves 2, 3 or 4 steps.) Infinite range is indicated by 0, however, and this was adapted to -1. Now the move generator of the AI (in contrast to that of the UI) did not interpret the -1 as an infinite slide, but as a slide up to half the board. I now changed the Betza parser such that it refrains from decrementing a range of 0.


H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 5, 2021 05:36 PM EDT in reply to x x from 04:45 PM:

Thats cool. The AI doesnt seem to understand checks from Wywerns (ski rook) though, it will happily move its king into check from them.

Ughh, the JavaScript from the Asymmetric Chess comment and the CwdA comment had some variables with the same name (because I of course cloned the latter to make the former), and when they are on the same page (as they are, in the comments listing) one uses the variables of the other. With as a result that in Asymmetric Chess there was a second King piece type, which was not considered royal.

Were you playing on the comments page, or did you create a separate page for the comment first by clicking 'View'?


Play-test applet for chess variants. Applet you can play your own variant against.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 5, 2021 02:59 PM EDT in reply to A. M. DeWitt from Tue May 4 09:32 PM:

Are you using the aliases as the piece IDs instead of the original piece IDs specified by the set file being used? If so, that will not work. You need to use the piece IDs originally specified by the set file, as the alias command only makes a visual change to the piece ID (it does not change the internal ID used in the code).

The Game-Code generator is not alias-aware. It just uses the piece IDs you specify in the diagram as piece labels. If you want to use aliases, it is up to you to edit the generated Game Code for adding the alias commands, and to decide whether you want to use the aliases or piece labels as piece ID in the Diagram.


Interactive diagrams. Diagrams that interactively show piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 5, 2021 05:38 AM EDT:

I implemented some new parameters with the diagram for controlling its appearence:

  • borders=0 can be used to suppress the black lines that separate the board squares. (Not recommended on uncheckered boards!)
  • rimColor=#FFFFF can be used to specify a color for the rim around the board that holds the coordinates, where #FFFFFF (= white) is the default, but can be replaced by any valid HTML color spec.
  • coordColor=#000000 can be used to specify the text color for the printed board coordinates, where #000000 (= black) is the default, but can be replaced by any valid HTML color spec.

Home page of The Chess Variant Pages. Homepage of The Chess Variant Pages.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 5, 2021 04:06 AM EDT in reply to Greg Strong from Tue May 4 09:34 PM:

I don't typically make it the primary diagram because different pages have different presentation styles (colors, etc) and I don't want them to all look the same.

I fully agree that the pages should keep their current character. But in many cases it should be possible to make an Interactive Diagram that looks exactly the same as the static diagrams they have now. These are often also based on piece themes like Alfaerie, Utrecht, etc. These can be used in the diagram too, and the square shades can be arbitrarily configured. This is what I usually do when I post diagrams in the comments. E.g. the three diagrams I posted below for Courier, Shatranj, and Makruk all use Utrecht, and the same piece representations as the original images in those articles, (even though I consider the use of a Queen symbol for the General in Courier rather dubious), and the latter two use an uncheckered, white board, while Courier uses the 'CVP orange' for the dark squares.

Of course in cases where the original setup 'image' consists of ascii art, it becomes a bit questionable whether it deserves to be preserved.

A more important concern is that we want the pages to be presentable (even if not fully functional) for people that have switched JavaScript off. To achieve that for my own articles (e.g. the recently submited Pink Chess), I use the following method: After I created the Interactive Diagram, I take screenshot of it, and upload that as 'membergraphics' for the article. I then include that image in the article within <noscript> tags, so that it would only be shown when JavaScript is off. To prevent the user gets to see the unprocessed definition of the Interactive Diagram, I give the <div> tag that contains this definition a style="display:none". The Diagram script will change this style so the section gets visible for each definition it processes.


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 4, 2021 06:08 PM EDT in reply to Ben Reiniger from 05:09 PM:

First, I generally think that these interactive diagrams should be promoted from comments into the articles themselves, unless they are somewhat experimental and would require frequent editing by someone other than the author or an editor.

Well, I only have access to articles I authored, and there the diagrams are indeed in the articles, as the main diagram for showing the setup. Some other members have included diagrams in their own articles, usually as a secondary diagram. Greg has used his power as an editor to add diagrams to some of the 'founding articles'.

Since I have no access to other people's articles, I always posted diagrams in the comments section for variants that I thought deserved one. I usually tried to stick to the 'theme' of the main diagram in those articles (coloring of the board, piece images). Any editor can copy the diagrams to the main article, as far as I am concerned. (In some cases I accompanied the diagram in the comment with an explanation on the features of the diagram script that I had to add to make it possible to do that variant; I would appreciate it if these comments could stay, or perhaps be moved to the comments on the Interactive diagram itself.)

Having the diagram in a comment does have an upside, though: when accessed from the index page I made, I always linked to the page you get when using the 'View' link to view the comment in isolation. Which means they immediately get the diagram in view. A link to the main article might have the diagram hidden somewhere at the bottom, after many other diagrams for showing setup and piece moves.

I don't think any of the diagrams needs any maintenance. They all link to the same JavaScript file, and most maintenance is done there.

Even if it would be a special index page, someone would have to maintain it, I suppose. I don't see how this could be automated. Any author could at any time decide to add a diagram to an article of his, and how would we know? If the index page formally is an article of mine, at least I can update it myself for diagrams I create. Editors can update it anyway.

BTW, I did some more thinking on the 'computer resources'  section of the home pages. Wouldn't it be better to split the graphics stuff from that, to put it in a separate section?


Shatranj. The widely played Arabian predecessor of modern chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 4, 2021 07:37 AM EDT in reply to x x from 07:14 AM:

Oops, I wrote the Q in the move field, instead of the id field, where I had intended it. Thanks for spotting this!


Elven Chess. 10x10 variant with 4 new pieces, of which one can double-capture. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 4, 2021 06:40 AM EDT in reply to x x from 06:15 AM:

you cannot chase away werewolf with weaker piece, opponent can just defend and keep the werewolf

Well, if you chase it away with a Pawn, the opponent would lose the piece he defends with for a Pawn, even though he keeps his Werewolf. So it is not that easy. But it indeed upsets the usual assumptions on tactics; there is no penalty on using the most valuable piece first.


💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 4, 2021 05:17 AM EDT:

An anti-trading rule of this type is necessary to keep the variant Chu-Shogi-like. I admit that for a Chess player these rules are annoying and seem unnatural (like the ban on perpetual checking in Xiangqi). But they are pretty much a defining characteristic of Chu Shogi, and dropping them would completely change the character of the game. I already did simplify them a bit (dropping the exception for adjacent Lions, which would be taken by igui anyway, and dropping the double-capture exception.)

The problem is that the more effective such rules are in preventing trading, the more annoying they will be in the eyes of a player with a Chess background, as it is really the impossibility to disarm the attack by trading that causes the annoyance. I guess the trading problem with pieces like the Lion is much more severe than with the Queen in orthodox Chess (which also dominates the game value-wise) because he Lion is a short-range piece. Queens act from a distance, and tend to exert their tactical threats from behind the front line, to administer the final blow in a longer tactical exchange. Lions have to jump into the melee, and are so powerful that the only defense against them often is another Lion. So they seek each other, where Queens can easily avoid direct contact.

Of course different anti-trading rules are conceivable, but this probably would not solve the annoyance with them, and would just move the game farther away from Chu Shogi for no good reason. And Chu Shogi is a very well evolved game; one can assume they adopted the rule that works best. E.g. one could forbid Lions to capture each other unconditionally, but it would probably make the attacking Lion too powerful, and would not solve the problem of indirect trading. It would be possible to invert the rules: outlaw recapture of a Lion after Lion x Lion, and outlaw other x Lion when a counterstrike against your own Lion is possible. This might favor a defending Lion too much, though.

In Werewolf Chess I used 'contageon' as a means to discourage trading. This feels somewhat less unnatural / arbitrary (to me, at least). But it completely upsets how tactical exchanges work, which can also be perceived as annoying.

Anyway, the goal of this game was to transplant the 'Chu-Shogi feeling' to a smaller/faster and more Chess-like variant, and the anti-trading rules are an essenial part of that. People that are put off by those rules also would not like Chu Shogi, and they are not the audience I target with this variant.


Shatranj. The widely played Arabian predecessor of modern chess. (8x8, Cells: 64) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 3, 2021 01:25 PM EDT:
satellite=shat promoZone=1 promoChoice=Q graphicsDir=http://www.chessvariants.com/graphics.dir/small/ whitePrefix=W blackPrefix=B graphicsType=gif squareSize=35 darkShade=#FFFFFF symmetry=mirror stalemate=win baring=0 Pawn::fmWfcF:Pawn:a2-h2 Ferz:Q::General:e1 Elephant:B:A:Elephant:c1,f1 Knight:N:::b1,g1 Rook::::a1,h1 King::K::d1

Shatranj


    Makruk (Thai chess). Rules and information. (8x8, Cells: 64) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
    H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 3, 2021 01:04 PM EDT:
    satellite=makruk promoZone=3 promoChoice=M graphicsDir=http://www.chessvariants.com/graphics.dir/small/ whitePrefix=W blackPrefix=B graphicsType=gif squareSize=35 darkShade=#FFFFFF symmetry=rotate Pawn::fmWfcF:Pawn:a3-h3 Met::F:Queen:e1 Elephant:S:FfW:Bishop:c1,f1 Knight:N:::b1,g1 Rook::::a1,h1 King::K::d1

    Makruk


      Interactive diagrams. Diagrams that interactively show piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
      💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 3, 2021 10:39 AM EDT:

      I fixed a bug in the diagram w.r.t. the pasting of games; the SAN parser was not recognizing the ID for the last piece in the list (usually King). I also made he parser somewhat more tolerant towards games that were not produced by the diagram itself, but had a slightly different formatting. In particular, it now no longer insists that move numbers are followed by a space. (Carlos and Kevin had posted a few such games for Sac Chess that wrote the move directly behind the period of the move number.)

      I also implemented a new parameter moveList=... for the diagram. If this is set to a game played earlier with a similarly configured diagram, it will act like that game was pasted into it from the start. (Must be a single line of text! Wrapping is OK, but there shouldn't be any explicit newlines in it.) This makes it possible to post diagrams dedicated to viewing a particular game. (A proposal by Fergus.)


      Chess with Different Armies. Betza's classic variant where white and black play with different sets of pieces. (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
      H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 3, 2021 04:04 AM EDT:

      The Silly Sliders

      I have an idea for an army themed on a class of pieces not often encountered in variants: lame ski-sliders. The Picket of Tamerlane Chess is such a piece: it moves as a Bishop, but must minimally move two steps. So it lacks the Ferz moves, but the more distant moves can still be blocked on the F squares. (Unlike a true Ski-Bishop, which would jump over these squares, ignoring completely what might be there.)

      The idea is to turn all sliding moves of the orthodox Chess pieces into such a lame ski-slide, and compensate them for the lost moves by giving them equally many leaps in other directions. So the Bishop loses its F moves, but gets the W moves instead. This makes it a sliding version of the Phoenix (WA), like the Bishop is a sliding version of the Ferfil/Modern Elephant (FA). I will call it an Onyx. The Rook likewise loses its W moves, and gets F moves instead. It is the sliding version of the Half-Duck/Lion, and I call it a Lame Duck.

      The compound of an Onyx and Duck would be a normal Queen, and is not suitable. To stay within the theme it has to lose all K moves, and should be compensated with 8 other moves. The N moves are the obvious choice for this. That makes the Queen replacement a sliding version of the Squirrel (NAD), and I call it a Squire.

      The Knight isn't a slider, and its move is already in the game through the Squire. That leaves a lot of freedom in choosing a move for the Knight replacement. A totally symmetric 8-target leaper that (AFAIK) is not used in any of the other established armies is the Kirin (FD). This is a color-bound piece, but the Onyx isn't, so this doesn't seem to be a major drawback. A Kirin easily develops from b1/g1 through its D move, (and the Onyx from c1/f1 through its distant B moves), so that castling is no problem. I am just not very happy with the name 'Kirin', as it has no western meaning, and starts with K, which collides with King. In modern Japanese 'kirin' means giraffe, but that name is already associated with the (1,4) leaper. Perhaps I should call it an Egg, as its moves are a sub-set of those of the Half-Duck, and make a somewhat round pattern. This piece is called 'Diamond' in Jörg Knappen's 'very experimenal' army the Sai Squad, and since this goes very well with the name Onyx (and perfecly describes the move pattern) I will adopt that name here too.

      Note that the total set of moves of the army is nearly identical to that of orthodox Chess. The same moves are just redistributed differently over the pieces. The only difference is that there is a D move on the Egg; if that would have been a W move (i.e. if we would have used a Commoner instead), the correspondence would have been perfect. (But there would not have been a color-bound piece then, and perhaps that is worth somethin too.) So I expect the army to be very close in strength to FIDE.

      satellite=silly graphicsDir=/membergraphics/MSelven-chess/ squareSize=35 graphicsType=png whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b promoChoice=RBN lightShade=#BBBBBB startShade=#5555AA useMarkers=1 enableAI=2 pawn::::a2-h2,,a7-h7 diamond::FD:marshall:b1,g1,,b8,g8 onyx::WyafF:crownedbishop:c1,f1,,c8,f8 lame duck::FyafW:duck:a1,h1,,a8,h8 squire::NyafK:princess:d1,,d8 king::::e1,,e8

      Home page of The Chess Variant Pages. Homepage of The Chess Variant Pages.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
      H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 2, 2021 09:58 AM EDT:

      And as long as we are doing requests: I just submitted an article that is an index with internal links to the many interactive diagrams on the CVP that can be used for playing against the AI. Would it be possible to add (a link to) that article in the 'Play' section of the Home Page, just as there is a link to an index page for the Jocly games that are implemented here? We could use this logo:

      I also think that a link to the Play-Test Applet article deserves to be in the 'Create column'. I also think the Checkmating Applets should be mentioned, but I am not sure where. My first thought was under 'Explore', but the other items there have a somewhat different character. Perhaps these applets are also 'Play' items? In any case I think they should be mentioned in the 'computer resources' section of the 'topic index' page. The many Jocly games we feature aren't mentioned there either. And the 'diagram editor with scalable graphics' also seems a useful resource worth mentioning.


      About Game Courier. Web-based system for playing many different variants by email or in real-time.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
      H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 2, 2021 03:09 AM EDT in reply to A. M. DeWitt from Sat May 1 06:04 PM:

      I still hope we can implement a solution that allows members to do this without any editorial help. It shouldn't be that difficult to have a 'custom' option in the piece-set selector of Game Courier, and a text entry where the user can specify the directory where he uploaded the images.

      I think the site would  also benefit from a more organized presentation of the available piece sets. There are may sets now that are hidden in membergraphics directories, which people who could  benefit from them would  never find.


      Interactive diagrams. Diagrams that interactively show piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
      💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Apr 30, 2021 05:49 AM EDT:

      I now removed the ability to always castle with a Rook (irrespecive of its location on the board). I originally added that to handle Omega Chess. But after the diagram supported jO this was no longer needed. So I changed the King's move to KisjO2 in the diagram I had posted for Omega Chess. I don't think there were any other diagrams that needed castling with a non-corner pieces, and were relying on this 'Rook exception'.

      So you can change the Rook move back to R, now, without the diagram highlighting a spurious castling.

      The way it works now is that the diagram locates the castling piece, and then, on the same rank, scans the board to the left and right until it reaches an edge or a hole. Then it scans back from there in the direction of the castling piece to find a non-empty square in the initial position ('farthest reachable piece').  This would be the castling partner for a plain O castling. If it should be the piece one square further inward, one should use jO.


      💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 29, 2021 06:49 AM EDT in reply to Aurelian Florea from 05:50 AM:

      Are you sure you are using the latest script, and not some version cached by the browser? When I try it in the Play-Test Applet, with a King move KisjO2isO3 on a 10-wide board, with Rooks (with move mRcR) on b1/i1 and Cannons on a1/j1, it does allow me to do the O2 (but not the O3) castling with the Rook.


      💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 29, 2021 05:36 AM EDT:

      It turned out the highlighting / move entry routine of the diagram (unlike the AI) was completely ignoring j prefixes on O atoms. So it was always castling with the outer-most piece of the initial setup. This should be fixed now, so please try it again.


      💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 29, 2021 03:28 AM EDT in reply to Greg Strong from Wed Apr 28 10:38 PM:

      Just to clarify - nothing we have discussed is actually 'free castling'. In free castling, the king can choose which square and the rook also has a choice of which square.

      Ah OK, I was confusing free castling wih flexible castling. Indeed free castling is still a problem. I guess explicitly wriing the Rook move is the most logical solution there. Like K~b1,Re1. At the moment the interactive diagram doesn't support this type of castiling at all. (In the AI, that is; as far as the user interface is concerned you can enter any double move, as there is no enforcement of turn order.)

      Hello HG, When castling short, the king can go on top of the rook, but it should not.

      This could be an artifact of the old way the diagram worked, (from before I introduced a j modifier on O) where it always allowed castling with a piece that moved as a Rook, no matter where it was located. The O4 castling in your case specifies the Cannon, as it doesn't have a j prefix. But only the AI respects that. When you alter the move of R to mRcR, does it still highlight the Rook?


      💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 28, 2021 02:15 PM EDT:

      Well, let me know if it causes any problems. It was not just for your variant; the existing notation system would have failed in any variant that had 'free castling', as it would have writen any castling as O-O or O-O-O into the game record, which then would be ambiguous. And in the process of fixing this I discovered that it was very sloppy in identifying castlings: it would also write O-O for a Valkyrie swapping move in Odin's Rune Chess! So it was really very helpful for bugfixing that you pointed out this ambiguity.


      💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 28, 2021 10:03 AM EDT in reply to Greg Strong from 08:26 AM:

      OK, I implemented this new notation in the diagram script. (As yet untested.) The main difficulty was detecting when to use it; I don't want it to supercede the O-O notation in games with normal castling. And it must not be confused by asymmetric castlings as in Janus Chess, which do have two O atoms in the move descripion, but as rO and lO, so that they are still unambiguous. It also must not trigger it just because there is an sO and an sjO. So I wrote code to count the number of O moves for each of the sideway directions and each number of j modifiers separately. And if any of those on any piece exceeds 1, the game is flagged as having 'free castling', and will use the K~... notation for indicating any castlings. (Even those that might not be ambiguous.)

      On input it will only treat the ~ as special in gemes that are flagged to have free castling; and input move that contains it will then only be matched against the castlings generated by the move definition in the current position, and will only match when the to-square of the King matches the square specified in the move.

      P.S. I see no reason why the same noation couldn't be used also for Kevin's 'fast castling'. The castling rules (in particular for to how the Rook must move on castling) can be assumed to be known, so there isn't any reason to make those explicit in the move notation. They should be specified in the move definition. I don't think it would be useful to allow mixing of normal and fast castling, so if a move like K~b1 is encountered, it would unambiguously follow where the Rook (or other castling partner) ends up. Fast castling should be indicated in Betza notation by a different atom than normal castling. I am in doubt between V and OX. Perhaps it is better to reserve OX for Fischer castling. Which the diagram currently doesn't implement. An OX castling would then be specified just as an O castling, and define the result when it is performed from the nominal position. The extra X suffix would then indicate castling would also be possible in positions that shuffled K and R, but with the same result as from the nominal position.


      25 comments displayed

      LatestLater Reverse Order EarlierEarliest

      Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.