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Comments by HGMuller

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Recognized Chess Variants. Index page listing the variants we feel are most significant. (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 1, 2020 09:13 AM UTC:

@Zied & Raphael:

If you read back through the comments on this topic, you will see that we have had an intense discussion in 2018 on what the future of the 'Recognized' label should be. At that time we corrected some obvious omissions of variants that are played by millions even today (Jangi, Makruk), or in their time dominated the chess scene (Shatranj, Chu Shogi). At that time a sort of concensus arose that it could be discontinued, as the categories for which novel variants could qualify would just duplicate the 'favorites' list.


H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Apr 3, 2020 09:15 PM UTC:

Well, I don't care whether items are called 'primary', 'featured' or 'highlights'. It is a very good idea that some of the more important items in the index for a certain 2-letter combination go in front, though, as sometimes the lists are quite long. I don't think it would be a good idea to split the items that are thus favored into several categories


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Apr 4, 2020 08:34 AM UTC:

OK, so we rename the 'primary items' to 'featured pages', and probably not much else will change. We have to update the list a bit, but we would have to do that anyway.

I suppose the featured pages serve two purposes:

  • Make it on average easier for visitors of the website to find what they are looking for.
  • Draw attention to pages 'we' think they should see, but which they never would look for.

I agree that all commercial variants deserve this status, so we should add Seirawan Chess, Musketeer Chess and Paco Shako. I also think that pages that provide 'infra-structural support' for this website, such as the Checkmating Applet or the Interactive Diagram wizzard should be mentioned there.


Bent Riders. A discussion of pieces, like the Gryphon, that take a step then move as riders.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Apr 11, 2020 08:20 AM UTC:

We have to blame Ralph Betza for hijacking the name Aanca, and assign it to the bent slider that first makes a W step and then continues outward like B. Unfortunately this new meaning of Griffon / Aanca became so well settled that it will be difficult to eradicate. There was a discussion about this in the comments on Team-Mate Chess (which also features a Betza Aanca).

Note that such a confusion is not unique: the Spanish word for a Bishop is Alfil, but in English Alfil is used in the original sense of the Shatranj piece. It will be even harder to make the Spanish Chess community see the error of their ways, and make them drop their erroneous use of the word Alfil.

My conclusion was that the simplest solution is to just accept that chess men have different names in different languages, which are not always translation of each other (e.g. Bishop - Runner - Elephant - Fool - Counselor), and that this can also be the case for unorthodox pieces. That way Griffon would be the English name for the piece that the Spanish call Aanca, while Aanca would be abused in English to dscribe the Betza piece, similar to how the Spanish abuse the word Alfil to describe a Bishop.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Apr 12, 2020 09:19 AM UTC:

Previous time this subject came up I proposed to rename the W-then-B to Ancaa.

I don't really like the name Eagle for the Griffon. And Eagle is an ortdinary bird, not a mythical monster. In that sense Griffon is much closer: a large mythical monster that can fly. OK, it doesn't really prey on Elephants, but who does? Arakis Sandworms, I suppose, but these cannot fly. If we want to be purist, we should keep the Arab name Roc.

Renaming the Grant Acedrex Unicorn is just as bad as renaming the Aanca. Unless we would rename it to Rhino, which was what the Alfonso Codex really meant. Using Unicorn or Rhino for other pieces than the N-then-B is exactly the same as hijacking the name Aanca for W-then-B.

I like the name Hippogryph, but I think it should be used for the W-then-B.

As to the Alfil: the move was changed without changing the name. Betza changed the move of the Aanca, but kept the name. Sounds like it is the same thing.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Apr 12, 2020 06:01 PM UTC:

Well, I suppose it depends on whether one considers it more important how the piece moves, or that it stayed in the array. The problem I see with the latter is that I consider Courier Chess as an important milestone on the evolutionary path of modern Chess, and consider the Bishop as a descendant of the Courier rather than the Alfil. But it is clear that I am outvoted here.

I still dislike Eagle for F-then-R, though. If a more bird-like name is desired, I would go for Harrier. This at least also exists in a chimeric (or should I say cyborg?) version that is able to take on Elephants...


H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, Apr 13, 2020 05:44 PM UTC:

How about 'Acromantula', then? In the Harry Potter series this is a monstrous men-eating spider. I like the spider connection, because spiders have 8 legs, and the W-then-B moves along 8 rays.

And it keeps me happy that it also starts with 'A', as the Fairy-Max implementation of Team-Mate Chess uses this piece with A as ID, and changing that would break backward compatibility with the previously saved games.


H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, Apr 13, 2020 10:16 PM UTC:

The name of the individual spider was Aragog. But when I Googled for that name, most references immediately mention that Aragog was an Acromantula. E.g. https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Muggles%27_Guide_to_Harry_Potter/Characters/Aragog . Since I am sold to an 'A', it is the name I will use in Team-Mate Chess.

If you want horns, Triceratops comes to mind. But I don't see why arachnids should be discriminated against.


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Apr 14, 2020 07:25 AM UTC:

I am not so sure about that. I had no idea what a Kirin, Wyvern or a Manticore was before I looked it up. I doubt whether many people in the street where I live would know what a Griffon is. I think it is a safe bet that more contemporary people have read Harry Potter or seen the movie than that have read the Odyssee.

I don't see any difference between Harry Potter stories or other contemporary fantasy litterature and ancient myth.


Team-Mate Chess. Variant with 8 different pieces, none of which is able to checkmate a bare king on its own. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Apr 14, 2020 08:55 AM UTC:

As off now, I changed the name of the W-then-B piece from the (historically incorrect) Betzan 'Aanca' to 'Acromantula'. In the Harry Potter series Acromantula refers to a species of giant, poisonous, man-eating spiders of high intelligence. As the piece can move along eight rays, so that its move pattern does resemble a spider seen from above, the name seems fitting.


Bent Riders. A discussion of pieces, like the Gryphon, that take a step then move as riders.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Apr 14, 2020 09:00 AM UTC:

Why not my suggestion of Monoceros, ...

Because it does not start with an 'A'.

Besides, 'Monoceros' is just Greek for Unicorn. If we use those two names for different pieces, how should the Greeks distinguish them? As there seemed to be opposition against calling the Grant Acedrex N-then-B by its original name Unicorn, because we already associate that name with another piece, I think we should make Monoceros the English name of the N-then-B. This also sounds more like the originally intended Rhinoceros (which unfortunately was also already taken).

And note that I already have a piece called Unicorn in Team-Mate Chess. I tend to use this name for an augmented (or a royal) Knight (in this case WN), because XBoard has a piece image for it, and it is one of the most knight-like pictograms there that is not actually a Knight. I don't want two different pieces in Team-Mate Chess to have names that are just each other's translation in some other language. (Even though the move patterns are rather similar, the Acromantula just being a sliding version of the leaping Unicorn.)


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Apr 14, 2020 09:54 AM UTC:

Not sure why you say that. Any suggestion from you that starts with 'A' would have been more than welcome. I had to go through a quite large set of mythical beasts before I found anything with an A at all.

Griffon is the commonly used English name for the F-then-R. There is no need to change that, as the name doesn't collide with anything else. If there was an exact translation of the historical name, it could be an argument (but not enough to justify changing a well-settelled name, IMO). But that is not the case here, and Griffon seems as close as you can get. Keeping the untranslated name (as the Spanish did for Alfil, and the English for Rook), would give either Aanca if we follow the Spanish (a bad idea, in view of the confusion sowed by Betza) or the Arabic 'Roc' (which most people would probably reject for being to close to Rook).

Only the W-then-B and N-then-B are in need of new suitable names, and Monoceros seems most suitable for the N-then-B, as it is an exact translation (to Anglicized Greek) of the Spanish name.

[Edit] Considering the lack of acclaim for Acromantula: I would also be perfectly happy with a fable animal of my own design for W-then-B. E.g. an Antigryph (or Apogryph?). Which is the opposite of a Gryphon (compare Contra-Grasshopper): A lion's head and fore-legs on an eagle's body.


Metamachy. Large game with a variety of regular fairy pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Apr 14, 2020 10:10 AM UTC:

Oh, I see that this article article was actually written by me. I had completely forgotten about that. I now adapted it as you asked. I also added a note about 'Lioness'.


Bent Riders. A discussion of pieces, like the Gryphon, that take a step then move as riders.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Apr 14, 2020 05:12 PM UTC:

Jean-Louis will probably be able to say more on this, but new translations of the Alfonso Codex have created a sort of consensus that Murphy was indeed completely wrong, and that the 'Unicorno' piece is an N-then-B. It depends a little bit on the interpretation of 'forward', whether this means "in the direction of the promotion rank" or "outward". The manuscript also contains descriptions of the real-life animals on which the pieces are modelled. And from this it is obvious that it is intended to depict a Rhino, even though the illustrator of the manuscript obviously had never seen one in his life, and hasd no clue as to how it looks. The move is supposed to reflect the behavior of the real-life animal, "starting with a leap, and then charging forward in a straight line". That doesn't suggest a reversal of direction after the leap; no real-life Rhino would be agile enough to do that. So it is pretty certain that 'forward' meant 'outward'.

@Greg: Interesting list. One thing I noticed is that it says

Anqa (Arabian) - Legendary Huge Satanic Eagle with Human Face. sometimes can resurrect herself like phoenix did.

So accoding to this Aanca is not Spanish for the mythical Elephant-eating bird, which was called 'Roc' in Arabic, but an Arabian name itself for an entirely different beast. And this latter beast is actually very close to what in Greek / Roman mythology is called a Harpy. This suggest the correct the correct translation for Aanca is Harpy.

[Edit] I looked up the translation of the Alfonso Codex, and from the description of the Aanca is is obvious that this is the Elephant-eating bird. So so much for the accuracy of the list... This is the quote of the translation of the Unicorno description:

The rhinoceros is a very large and very strong beast with two horns – one on its forehead and
one on its nose. Its nose horn is so strong that it can spear an elephant in the gut and lift it from
the ground. The forehead horn is very sharp and cuts powerfully. This rhinoceros is as large as
an elephant and ash coloured. It has ears like a pig and when it is angry its eyes turn as red as
ruby. When it begins to run it runs far after it gives a jump like a horse and so does its piece. The
rhino’s move is composed of two different steps. First, like leaps like a knight. It may remain on
that square if it wishes or may also continue to any square on the diagonal(s) of that square,
maintaining its movement in a forward direction from that square.

I remember having looked at the original text, and although my 13th-century Spanish is just as bad as my modern Spanish, it is still enough like Latin / French / English that is is easy to verify this translation is entirely correct. I had no doubt about that at all.

 

What I dislike of 'Arachnid' is that it is not the name of a species, but an entire class of species, which not only contains spiders, but also scorpions and other orders of animals. Like calling a piece 'Insect', 'Mammal' or 'Bird'. Or even perhaps 'Vertebrate'.

BTW, the thesis that names from mythology would be better known breaks down completely on this list; for almost any creature in it you can be very sure no one ever heard about it. So the question arises: why bother picking an existing historic mythological creature if  no one ever heard of it anyway? The more I think about it, the more I start to like 'Antigryph' (or 'Antigryphon', if you want): a piece that moves opposite to the Gryphon.


H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 15, 2020 11:40 AM UTC:

To prevent confusion it is probably best to drop the name Aanca from English completely. We could have:

  • F-then-R: Griffon
  • N-then-R: Hippogriff
  • W-then-B: Antigriff
  • N-then-B: Monoceros

There are some other possibilities with 90-degree bends:

  • W-then-R: Ultragriff, the logical extension of the series Hippogriff -> Griffon -> Ultragriff
  • F-then-B: Chirogriff. (Entirely new move pattern, chimera of a Bat (Chiroptera) and a Lion, with claws at the tip of its wings.)

Logically the degenerate cases (which make a 0-degree bend) also belong in this class

  • D-then-R: Ski-Rook
  • A-then-B: Ski-Bishop

H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 15, 2020 05:04 PM UTC:

Indeed. The W-then-R and F-then-B would have overlapping paths, which could be considered a design flaw.

All these pieces have a leap followed by sliding. Of course there also are the 'hook movers' of the large Shogi variants, which have both legs of their move a slide, which makes them immensely powerful.


H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Apr 17, 2020 10:24 AM UTC:

Note that there is no indication whatsoever that the first step of the Grant-Acedrex N-then-B would be non-capturing in the Alfonso codex. This just states (after describing the real-life animal as a Rhino):

First, like leaps like a knight. It may remain on
that square if it wishes or may also continue to any square on the diagonal(s) of that square,
maintaining its movement in a forward direction from that square

I don't know where Betza got the idea (which he then himself rejects) that the piece could have been divergent.

 


MShook-shogi[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, Apr 20, 2020 06:35 PM UTC:

Nice application of the Interactive Diagram. I didn't try to digest this game yet, but I have a general question about your presentation. Your article contains this list of piece descriptions in English. Do you think it makes sense to have the Interactive Diagram, or perhaps the Design Wizard for the diagram, produce such a list automatically? For most pieces it will not be that difficult to 'rephrase' a Betza move description in English. And your list for these games could serve as guidance for what we want a description to say. (E.g. for Gold = WfF, should we make it say "moves one step orthogonally, or one step diagonally forward", or "moves one step in all directions, except diagonally backwards".)

If the Design Wizard would generate such a list, the author could just copy-paste that in his article, and perhaps add some further explanations for the more complex pieces, or change any wording he did not like. The first column should really be images, I think. Just having the piece name there, and then starting the description also with the piece name, is a bit double. It would already be helpful if a table was generated with all piece images in the first column, and the name in the second, so that the author could write the move decription after the text. But for simple pieces also generating a reasonable text should not be too difficult.

What do you think?


Game Courier. PHP script for playing Chess variants online.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 07:29 AM UTC:

I think it is very unfortunate that we do not have a universal naming scheme of the piece images in the various sets. Also, having different 'sets' of Alfaerie seems a bad idea. Alfaerie is one theme, and ideally someone wanting to use that theme should have all images available without worrying which set it is in.

Alfaerie is by far the most elaborate set we have. It could act as a reference implementation for image naming, and all less elaborate sets could use the same name space. And just leave names for symbols they do not have undefined, or use them as alias for a natural replacement.

Also note that the SVG renderer can make arbitrary cut-and-paste compounds of pairs of pieces (such as Rook + Bishop for a Chancellor, but also Knigh + Camel if someone desires one), or produce rotated versions of any piece.


Zanzibar-XL. Further step after Metamachy. 80 pieces of 19 different pieces, with historical lineage.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 08:10 AM UTC:

My best guess is that the given piece values totally suck. The hoppers seem hugely over-estimated. Even in the opening phase of Xiangqi a Cannon is only marginally better than a Horse, while the Horse is only worth half a Knight in a FIDE context. The Cardinal seems hugely undrestimated; on 8x8 it is only about a quarter pawn weaker than a Marshall, and I would not be surprised if it is actually stronger than one in this game, as it is very adept in demolishing Pawn chains, and there are a lot of Pawns here.

I did do some piece-value measurements on a 12x12 board lately, but the results were a bit anomalous. It seemed the difference between a Rook on one hand, and a Bishop or Knight on the other could not be compensated with any reasonable number of pawns; the Rook always won, and giving the opponent one more extra Pawn did not change the average result. The problem seemed to be that too many Pawns remain on such a large board, and their path to promotion is long. And Pawns cannot self-defend against a Rook while a Bishop or Knight can never catch a passer, and Bishops often not even a blocked Pawn. So what happens is that the Rook just eats away all opponent Pawns, the opponent minor being tied up by preventing advance of a passer. And then it starts to push his own passers protected by the Rook, so that in the end the only way to prevent promotion is sac the minor. After which the Rook player promotes his other passers, or just checkmates with the Rook.


H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 01:50 PM UTC:

It was not my intention to upset anyone, but in this era of fake news it is important to unambiguously suppress erroneous information at the source. All too easily it will spread as an oil stain over the internet, and become 'common knowledge' that no one doubts because they see it everywhere. That Zillions piece values are no good should be common knowledge. (Or is it, really? Or do only authors of ZRF games know that, and would the average reader be intimidated that a computer did say it, so that it must be true?) So yes, a disclaimer like "these values are based on pure guessing / mobility calculation / play testing in five hundred games" would be very useful.

And I don't agree with the statement that any method for determining piece-value "sucks". If, after trading a Rook for two Knights in an otherwise equal position, both sides would still score about 50% in 1000 games, I would say that this is very strong evidence that a Rook is exactly twice as valuable as two Knights. (And thus N = 2.5, if R=5 served as a standard.)

Interesting point about the Metamachy/Zanzibar Pawn speed. The measurements I referred to were with FIDE Pawns. But beware that this willcould have a huge effect on piece values. Bishops will be no good at all for stopping multiple passers, which would just jump over the diagonals controlled by a Bishop. Not even a Bishop pair will be able gain an isolated Metamachy passer, as it cannot attack both squares in front of it, as well as attack the Pawn itself at the same time. Which a Rook can still easily do, by attacking the passer from the same file.


Game Courier. PHP script for playing Chess variants online.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 02:29 PM UTC:

You are correct that I misunderstood things. But I still think that the problem that different graphics themes use different names for the same pieces contributes to the problem.

I suppose that with 'too limited' you mean that it would not be possible for each player to select his own preferred board theme. But if all corresponding pieces always had the same name for their image in any theme, it should be quite easy to provide that feature too. Users would just specify the theme they want to use. If the Cazaux theme disn't have a Camel image (so that you would get a blank image, or a question mark for the Camel when you selected that theme in a variant that featured a Camel), then it would obviously not be suitable for that variant, and users would discover that quickly enough. Or you would use a lying Knight as Camel in any theme that doesn't have a Camel, but does have a Knight.

It seems a bad idea to pick images just based on a single letter. For some variants there would not even be enough letters! What you describe sounds as a rather clumsy work-around for the problem that more unorthodox pieces exist than that there are letters. The logical way to assign piece IDs is to derive them from the piece name, and not the other way around. If a default way (such as the first letter) doesn't work because of collissions, the programmer could provide his own.


Grande Acedrex. A large variant from 13th century Europe. (12x12, Cells: 144) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 06:00 PM UTC:

The wrong name is the least of the problems of this article. The contents is completely off too, as it is based on the Murray description. This was alredy commented on by me before.


H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Apr 22, 2020 10:08 PM UTC:

Curiously, it does not look like the word "acedrex" appears with "grant" or "grande" in the first sentence.

The way I read it, it does, but it is broken over two lines: açe-drex. The word before it just seems gnt to me, with some curved line above it. On the 10th line of the second column there is another occurrence of the word grant ("la es tan grant que"), and it has the same final character. IIt does look like a t to me.


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 08:59 AM UTC:

If we don't want to lose connection with earlier literature, we could simply call it "Grande/Grant Acedrex" in the title / index, and devote a sentence on the naming issue in the introduction.


Zanzibar-XL. Further step after Metamachy. 80 pieces of 19 different pieces, with historical lineage.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 23, 2020 09:07 PM UTC:

There still is one thing in the rules that is not clear to me, in connection with the King jump: can the King jump over an enemy piece that is protected? In other words, are pieces considered to attack friendly pieces in their path?


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 11:19 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

Pieces are never attacking friendly pieces or I miss something

That is the answer to my question. So if a virgin King is on h1, a black Bishop on h2, and a black Knight on g4, the King can move to h3. If his own Bishop was on h2 instead, he could not.

Some people would say pieces can attack the square a friendly piece is on. They obviously cannot capture it, but that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as being attacked. E.g. when my King stands next to an enemy Pawn that is protected, does he attack that Pawn?

Personally this rule strikes me as quite illogical; to pass through a square it should be empty, and if you don't pass through it but jump over it, you shouldn't have to worry if you are attacked there. And I wonder how much this rule actually affects the game; it seems very hard to attack any squares next to the enemy King before he moves away to safety, as he starts buried behind 2 or 3 ranks of pieces. Especially if he can jump.

In general I like your variants a lot, because you do not only feature super-strong pieces (much stronger that Rook), but also Knight-class pieces. Most variants suffer from an over-abudance of Queen-class pieces. The middle of the strength spectrum is still a bit under-populated, though: almost none of the pieces is close to a Rook in value.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 05:48 PM UTC:

No, this is not what Fergus said. He said the King could not go to h3 because h2 was attacked. h3 is not attacked. And what Fergus says contradicts what you say: according to Fergus the black Knight is actually considered to attack the black Bishop, a piece of its own color that he cannot capture. While you said: "Pieces are never attacking friendly pieces...".

This is not obvious, one can argue both ways. Therefore I think it should be clarified in the rules what exactly "attacked" means.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 06:24 PM UTC:

Indeed, I never programmed for Zillions; I don't have it. But what Zillions thinks about this is not relevant. Articles here are not meant to be only understandable by people that program for Zillions.

That a Zillions operator attacked? means "attacked or protected" does not redefine the meaning of the english word "attacked". Even in chess circles attacked and protected are very troublesome concepts. E.g. many Chu-Shogi players insist that a Lion is protected when in fact recapture is not possible after it gets captured (because the pawn that was supposed to protect it is captured in the same move). And imagine a lame Dababba on d1. Does it attack f1? Can white castle O-O (on 8x8)?

And what if the Knight on g4 in my example was pinned on his own King (on g12, say) by a white Rook on g2? Does that pinned Knight still 'protect' the Bishop on h2? Would it 'attack' a white Bishop there?


Tengu Dai Shogi. Turbo version of Dai Shogi, with some Dai Dai Shogi pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 09:40 PM UTC:

The tiles button is not an automatic asset of the diagram, but just added JavaScript embedded in the HTML page, to run the diagram script again with other settings. I can easily hide it, but I would prefer to create the missing images. Problem here is that many of those will have to be 2-kanji tiles. E.g. Flying Dragon has the problem that both its kanji are in use by more common pieces (Flying Chariot = Rook and Dragon King). I am not sure it is a good idea to mix 1-kanji and 2-kanji symbols, so perhaps I have to redo them all, and make a complete 2-kanji set for (Maka) Dait Dai Shogi.

As to text descriptions, it appear that we are of different opinion on that subject. I would say these should be avoided at all cost, or you would get horrible articles like those in Wikipedia. The text unambiguously describes how to read the range in the 8 directions from the mnemonic piece symbols, and even people with JavaScript disabled get to see a board image with these mnemonic symbols. If there are people that do not know how to interpret the symbols, they read the text, and they would know. If they cannot understand that text, they would certainly not be able to understand a text that describes an individual piece. There is not a shred of hope that someone not capable of reading the mnemonic symbols would be able to play this game.


Zanzibar-XL. Further step after Metamachy. 80 pieces of 19 different pieces, with historical lineage.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Apr 25, 2020 10:00 PM UTC:

I don't think that is true. Whether a move that would be a pseudo-legal capture if the target square was occupied by a piece of opposite color is an attack or a protection depends on the color of the occupant of that target square: it would be attack on an enemy, and protection on a friend, irrespective of who has the move.

The interpretation that 'attacks' means "must have a legal capture to that square if it was his turn" is a perfectly reasonable one, that cannot be excluded in absence of an explicit statement defining it differently. In the Xiangqi chasing rule it even means "must have a capture to that square that would be legal if his King was not in check".


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Apr 26, 2020 10:22 AM UTC:

I agree this is the usual terminology ('attacked'/'protected'). In the game description you use the word 'threatened', though, which I now understand means "attacked or protected". I am not sure that is standard terminology (in fact I think the more comon meaning of 'threatened' is "attacked and not (sufficiently) protected or of higher value than the attacker"), and in any case it is rather ambiguous. And it still leaves open the question whether pinned pieces attack or protect anything.

So I think it would be good to add an unambiguous definition of 'threatened', e.g. "when it would not be legal for the King to be left on that square replacing whatever was there before". I have now adapted the phrasing that way in the Metamachy article.


Tengu Dai Shogi. Turbo version of Dai Shogi, with some Dai Dai Shogi pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Apr 26, 2020 01:43 PM UTC:

Indeed it was not obvious that the names can be clicked, and Fergus has already addressed that point in the text he added. The Interactive Diagram has a feature where it automatically creates a list of piece names (not to be confused with the piece table that normally is hidden directly below it) and the squares they are on somewhere in the article text (a 'satellite', for which you just have to provide an empty HTML list somewhere in your text with a certain 'id'), and such lists will then always be headed by the notice (highlighted with light-blue background) that you can click on the names. (E.g. see here.) But I did not use that here, as for games like this the list would become very long, and could not be kept in view together with the diagram. Which makes the clicking feature a bit useless, or at least very cumbersome. So I hand-formatted the list to surround the diagram. But I forgot to put the notice with it.

Auto-generating a table of text descriptions (as another optional satellite) might be possible in the future. But for games with as many pieces as this, I think it is really detrimental. It just swamps the reader with (mostly redundant) low-density information, making it hard to find the pieces about which something interesting can be said. Of course the table could be hidden initially.

But in earlier discussions the issue came up that people might have disabled JavaScript in their browser, and that in this case we still want to show them the essential information. Hidden tables are no good when there is no way to open those, and tables that are generated on the fly would not be there at all. The latter is a second reason not to use the auto-generated list of pieces in an article; I uploaded a screenshot of the diagramm as it is initially generated as a static PNG image between <noscript> tags, to insure that in any case people would see the mnemonics, in addition to the surrounding list of piece names.


Zanzibar-XL. Further step after Metamachy. 80 pieces of 19 different pieces, with historical lineage.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Apr 26, 2020 02:28 PM UTC:

Well, perhaps I am exceptionally stupid then, because I did not understand it. Criticism is good; it can lead to improvement of the quality of the website. We should do it as much as possible. Authors should not be blind to imperfections in their work, and the normal response would be to repair the defects, rather than complaining about someone noticing them.

What make you think that we would only scrutinize your articles? The article attracted attention because it was newly posted. Not because it was you that posted it. As you can see my freshly posted article about Tengu Dai Shogi gets a lot of criticism.

Peer review works! It is a good way to guarantee quality.


Complete Chess. with a riding and a leaping piece family.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Apr 26, 2020 08:30 PM UTC:

How pieces interact with Pawns has a profound influence on their value. Because there are so many Pawns around. Whether a passer is unstoppable in a Pawn ending is determined by the famous "rule of squares". For a Ferz the area is nearly as large as for the King. The color binding doesn't hurt much, as it is not that important on what color you stop the Pawn, as long as you do it before it reaches the promotion square. For a Wazir the area where it can stop a passer is much smaller. I would indeed expect the Wizard to be better than the Wazir-Knight on a large board, due to its increased ability for catching up with Pawns. On 8x8 it might suffer from the Camel move falling off board too often.


Chess with Different Armies. Betza's classic variant where white and black play with different sets of pieces. (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Apr 28, 2020 09:45 PM UTC:

I did some more work on the CwDA version of KingSlayer, and finally put the source code on line. The latest version now also supports the Daring Dragons army. This was not a trivial addition; this army needed several unusual features that were not implemented yet. For one, the Dragoons (KimN) need a divergent virgin move, and neither divergence nor virgin moves were implemented (other than in the hard-coded Pawn). The Wyvern has a ski-sliding move, which thoroughly affects the way we have to test for check, and what evasions to generate. It introduces a new mode of checking (which I call 'tandem check'), which is a double check where both checks come from the same direction. These can not be cured by capture of the checker, but unlike normal double check, it can be cured by interposition.

The Dragonfly is a tricky piece, with binding to odd or even files. It requires special evaluation to handle it well in the end-game. One of the unusual properties is that it is a 'semi-major': it can force checkmate on a bare King, but the KFK end-game also has fortress draws. Which of the two it is, is about an even call, like a promotion race in KPK: If the bare King can reach the b-file before the Dragonfly gets there, he can take safe shelter on the a-file, and it is draw. Otherwise it is a win. From the material composition alone, you cannot make a good guess. So I put in a routine that makes a reasonable guess based on the actual locations. (Not perfect yet, as it doesn't take account of the bare King hindering the Dragonfly in its attempt to reach the b-file, or vice versa, but that only happens in a minority of the positions.)

When the weak side still has Pawns (e.g. KFKP), I classify the end-game as drawish. (But not as bad as for KBKP, where you have no chance at all.) This assumes that the Pawn can act as a sufficient distraction for the strong side that the weak side has a very good chance of reaching safety with his King in the mean time. In fact a fair amount of positions in this end-game are won for the Pawn! If the Dragonfly cannot visit the file the Pawn is on, you only have the King to stop it, and the Pawn can easily be outside its reach as well. So Dragonfly endings, like Pawn endings, should really test for 'unstoppable passers' in their evaluation. (At the moment, KingSlayer doesn't do that for either, with as a consequence that is sometimes trades the last (non-Dragonfly) piece in a near-equal position, and on the next move (where it can search much deeper) sees the score dropping to -8.xx because the opponent's promotion can no longer be prevented.

The version I uploaded has the announcement of equal-army sub-variants commented out. With all combinations of the 5 supported armies, the list of variants in the CECP variants feature had become so long that it crashed XBoard!

I also started implementing limited configurability: it supports a variant 'custom', for which the user can specify (in a file gamedef.ini) the armies as an arbitrary selection of all the supported CwDA pieces. In addition there are two user-configurable pieces that can be selected too. These pieces can be built as an arbitrary combination of the move sets used to construct the standard CwDA pieces, plus one user-specified set of leaper moves. I am still thinking about a way to also allow specification of divergent or lame moves on these pieces. It might also be useful to allow redefinition of the set of leaps that is only used for the Charging Knight, in cases where the latter doesn't participate. And perhaps to redefine one or two slider moves, e.g. by making the range of R4 configurable, or perhaps replaceable by B3 or B4, or fB.

[Edit] I now uploaded a Windows binary of the latest version to http://hgm.nubati.net/CwDA.zip .


Zanzibar-XL. Further step after Metamachy. 80 pieces of 19 different pieces, with historical lineage.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 30, 2020 12:31 PM UTC:

I did not correct anything; this is not the Wikipedia, and people cannot edit each other's submissions. I pointed out that the rule description in your article was ambiguous, and why. At that point you could have rephrased that rule to make it unambiguous (like I now have done in the article about Metamachy that I authored, now that I finally understand the rule), and that would have been the end of it. Then you would have had the last word.

But for some reason that escapes me, you did choose not to do that, but instead argue about procedure: people have no right to criticize your submissions, want to have the last word, spoil your fun, make your variant look bad...

Of course that doesn't solve anything; the ambiguos rule description is still in your article. If you think that people will not like your variant when it has ambiguous rules, you have only yourself to blame for it by insisting the description must remain ambiguous. It is not my fault that it is ambiguous, and you should be grateful someone pointed it out, giving you at least an opportunity to fix it. But, as the saying goes, you can leed a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 30, 2020 02:29 PM UTC:

Sorry, but even if one person doesn't understand it, it is obviously not 'perfect'. If it is clear to you, but not to me, it is not clear. That is what 'clear' means: that everyone should be able to understand it, not just you.


Metamachy. Large game with a variety of regular fairy pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Apr 30, 2020 07:12 PM UTC:

Well, that is no good. The glossary says.

attack - ... 2. n. under..... The state of lying within the capture zone of an enemy piece.

And capture zone says:

capture zone - n. For a given piece, those squares to which it can legally capture.

This is not at all the case here. For one you cannot capture to a square that is occupied by a friendly piece; such a presence would block the move. Secondly, a piece that would be pinned to its King would not have a legal capture even on an enemy, as it is illegal to expose your King to check. While the Metamachy rules still forbid the King to jump over such a square. All this was discussed at the hand of examples.

In fact the definitions in the glossary agree exactly with what I have been saying all along, and which I supposedly 'misunderstood' in the description of Zanzibar-XL. It seems that you are the one confused about what the terms mean or what the Metamachy rules are. So in fact you have ruined the article by replacing an exact and concise description of the rules by an indirect reference that gets it wrong.

I am shocked that you think you are at liberty to mutilate other people's contributions this way. Even if I would have written something that was plain wrong, the proper procedure would have been to point out my error and ask me to fix it. Please change it back to how I formulated it!


📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 1, 2020 01:28 PM UTC:

capture zone - n. For a given piece, those squares on which it has the ability to legally capture a piece should the opportunity arise. This may include squares with nothing on them that it may presently capture. What matters is that if an enemy piece did move to a square, the piece could capture it. See threatened.

This is still no good. If the piece was pinned, he could still not legally capture an enemy piece that moved to that square. Unless you consider 'opportunity arises' to also mean "when it doesn't happen to be pinned, and when the that player is not in check". But then it could mean anything, e.g. why not "if there had been no pieces in its path blocking it", or "if it had been on a more suitable square". Involving vague, undefined concepts like 'opportunity' just makes things worse.

The FIDE rules do define 'under attack' as follows:

3.1.2

A piece is said to attack an opponent’s piece if the piece could make a capture on that square according to Articles 3.2 to 3.8.

3.1.3 A piece is considered to attack a square even if this piece is constrained from moving to that square because it would then leave or place the king of its own colour under attack.

It seems the definitions in the glossary have removed the reference to articles 3.2 to 3.8 (which we have to generalize here) and replaced it by the the term 'legally'. This is where the trouble starts, because 'legal move' in the FIDE rules already has a specific meaning (involving check), while what the FIDE rule meant to say here was "would conform to the rules of motion for the individual pieces" (ignoring check, which is only mentioned in 3.9). And we appear to be missing the all-important qualification 3.1.3 in the definition of 'under attack'.

I am not familiar with the term 'capture zone', but it seems you want it to mean "the set of squares that the rules for moving the piece (given the board population elsewhere, but ignoring any check rule) would allow it to capture an enemy on.

Note that the concept 'attack' in the FIDE rules only serves the purpose of formulating the check and castling rule, for which purpose captures that expose their own King are also valid attacks. It is never used in connection with non-royal pieces. This definition of 'attacked' therefore can deviate from the colloquial meaning as used by chess players, who will say things like "my Queen is under attack by a Pawn". It is IMO questionable if they would say that when the Pawn was pinned. But apart from what I think, far more serious is that the FIDE concept of 'attacked' is at odds with the definition in Xiangqi. There the rules do apply the concept 'attacked' to non-royals, in connection with the definition of perpetual chasing. And in this context attack on (or protection of) a non-royal always means "by a fully legal capture (recapture)". 'Attacks' by pinned pieces are not recognized as attacks. (Attacks on the King by pinned pieces are recognized as checks, though.)

Since we run a website for chess variants, I think it would be ill advised adopting a terminology that was exclusively defined in the narrow context of the 'FIDE rules of Chess', but would fail to be useful in other chess variants, amongst which the world's most played variant. FIDE rules should obviously not be binding for us, or the whole concept of a chess variant would be outlawed.

So I think the definition "has a legal capture move to the square when it would have been occupied by an enemy" would be the best definition for 'attacked', with the note that when applied to a royal, every capture would be legal. (Note that the FIDE rules also explicitly point this out when they use the word  'attacked' in 3.9.1 for describing when castling is allowed, while in fact this is redundant, as 3.1.3 already defined 'attacked' in that way!)

It can seem awkward that 'attacked' means something else for a royal then for a non-royal, and that a King would be 'under attack' on the same square where another piece would not be under attack. But in chess variants we have to deal with that problem anyway, as there might be divergent pieces that capture royals in other ways than non-royals. Again Xiangqi comes to mind, where the king attacks the opponent king through a Rook move, but not other pieces. And of course the Ultima Chameleon. It would solve a lot of problems if we distinguished 'attacks a square' (non-royal) from 'checks a square' (royal).

Note that these complications are a result of applying the concept in anticipation of a move, rather than to an actual position. In the latter case it would be obvious whether a legal capture to a given square is possible or not. But for judging legality of castling, it requires several fictions: that it is the opponent's turn, and that you have moved your King to the square in question. Without those fictions, f1 would not be under attack by a Pawn on e2, as 3.7.3 (to which the definition of 'attacked' refers) clearly states that Pawns can only make diagonal moves to squares occupied by an opponent. As we all agree that white castling is not allowed with a black Pawn on e2, we apparently agree that the rule must not be applied to the position before castling, where the Pawn had no move to f1. The FIDE rules do not specify whether the intended fiction (for the "square the King must cross") is that we should imagine (1) the King having moved there, (2) a second royal piece having been placed on that square, (3) a new non-royal piece having been placed on that square. Because in FIDE this doesn't matter. But in other variants it could. E.g. when there is a non-jumping Dababba on d1, it could not capture to f1 after (2) or (3), but it could after (1). I think the natural generalization would be (1): you cannot castle to g1 when you cannot legally move your King to f1.

That brings me to another issue in Metamachy: what if there is a black Cannon on f1, a virgin King on g1 and h1 is empty. Can the King now move to i1? In interpretation (1) it could, as keeping in the direct line of sight of a Cannon never exposes you to capture.

Anyway, while awaiting for you to make a final decision of how or whether to fix the glossary to make it conform to the Metamachy rules, I repaired the damage you had done to the Metamachy article. I think it is a very bad idea anyway to refer to a glossary where the reader has to browse through several items with long and complicated definitions to learn something that could have been said in half a sentence.


📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 1, 2020 05:34 PM UTC:

The key word here is 'common'. If a variant uses a concept that is unique to it, nothing is gained by moving its description off-page.

Anyway, I'd like to avoid language that use words of contested meaning that are a source of universal confusion. The current phrasing doesn't use any such terms at all, so there is no need to refer to anything for an explanation. Unless the new rule is that we can also no longer say things like "moves dagonally" or "moves like in orthodox Chess", but have to refer to the glossary item for Bishop for that.


A Glossary of Basic Chess Variant Terms. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 1, 2020 05:42 PM UTC:

I would like to propose a definition of 'pass through check' as "passing through or jumping over a square where it would have been illegal to move your royal to, had that square been empty".

I see the current glossary doesn't contain a definition for 'check'. One could define it as a situation where a royal could be pseudo-legally captured if the player currently on move would pass his turn. But there could be a variant 'Recursive Chess' where it is not allowed to capture a royal when it exposes your own King. So it is perhaps better to define a legal move as a pseudo-legal move that does not expose your royal piece to capture, with the note that a move that terminates the game would never expose anything. Some game-termination rules are such that the actual game result is determined by an 'after-move': E.g. in Shatranj you can win by baring the King, unless the opponent can bare your King  in the next turn (in which case it is draw). Or, presumably, when he could capture your King (in which case you would lose by having played an illegal move). So on King baring, he gets an after-move. Variants like King of the Hill allow you to make the winning move to the center only if that move was legal, i.e. reaching the square is not enough, but there is an after-move that reverses the result when it can capture your King. And in Tai Shogi the royal is an Emperor, which can capture to any square on the board. Except that he cannot expose himself to recapture when capturing a royal. So there is an after-move in Tai Shogi even after capture of the royal, and the capture of the Emperor in this after-move has priority in deciding the game result over capture of the first royal! Recursive Chess could also be formulated that way.

So you are in check if the opponent, would it be his turn, has a winning pseudo-legal capture on your royal piece. In orthodox Chess any capture of the King would be instantly winning. But in Recursive Chess capturing the King with a pinned piece, (or in Tai Shogi capturing a protected Emperor with your Emperor) would be a losing capture, as in the after-turn your own King would be taken. So you would not be in check when you expose your King to capture by a pinned piece (or when your Emperor is protected). In al cases this can then be combined with the rule that moves that put your own royal in check are illegal.


H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 1, 2020 09:46 PM UTC:

Although the term 'pseudo-legal move' is standard jargon amongst chess programmers, I am not sure if it would ring  a bell with the typical chess player. If this isn't the case, I am not sure if we should keep this term, or perhaps introduce another term for this that sounds less technical. How about 'valid'? A move would be 'valid' if it complied with the rules for moving that particular piece type, irrespective of whether it would comply with any restrictions on exposing (royal?) pieces to capture. A move would be 'legal' if it complies with all rules of the game.


Abstract Chess Pieces. Icons of chess and chess variant pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 1, 2020 09:53 PM UTC:

If you want a scribble too mark the piece as a Silver, why not use an X with an extra line connecting the tips of the upper two legs? That resembles the move pattern.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, May 2, 2020 06:35 AM UTC:

I meant the leftmost of these two, but never mind. The alchemy symbols are more in line with some other piece themes.


A Glossary of Basic Chess Variant Terms. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, May 2, 2020 09:34 AM UTC:

I propose to change the definition of 'attack' by the following:

  1. A piece is under attack when the opponent, would it be his turn, could *legally* capture it in the current position.
  2. A square is under attack from a player when that player could *legally* capture an enemy piece standing on that square, given the remaining board occupation.
  3. Colloquially, 'to attack' can also mean "play a move that creates one of the above situations".

Where *legally* would refer to the term 'legal', defined as:

Moves are legal when they would comply with all rules of the game. Moves are called pseudo-legal when they they comply with all rules except those that forbid to leave certain pieces (usually called *royals*) exposed to capture after a move.

Where *royals* would refer to an entry for 'royal':

A piece type is called 'royal' when capture or elimination of it terminates the game. With only a single royal per player, capture implies elimination. In some CVs a player can have multiple royals. We can then distinguish absolute royalty (first capture of a royal terminates the game) from extinction royalty (elimination of all royals of one player forces game termination).

CVs often have the rule that it is not *legal* to expose yourself to a game-terminating move of the kind described above that would result in your loss. (See *check*, *mate*.) In this case the mentioned captures cannot be part of any real game, and are only used as hypothetical continuations after moves that are not legal, to establish their illegality.

And for 'check':

A player on move is said to be 'in check' when his opponent, if he were on move, would be able to instantly decide the game in his advantage by capturing a *royal* piece.

(The condition that the capture should be a win is added to exclude cases like Tai Shogi, where capture of a royal by an Emperor would be a loss if recapture is possible. The word instantly was added to exclude situations where the capture of one of multiple royals is merely the first move of a forced winning line. Perhaps the term 'instantly decide' should be replaced by 'terminate', which could then get its own definition in the glossary.)

For 'mate':

A position where the player on move has no *legal* move is called a 'mate'. We distinguish checkmate (when mentioned player is also in *check*) and stalemate (otherwise), and the rules of the CV often assign a different result to those.

Possible entry for 'terminate':

A move is said to terminate a game if it fixes the game result without the players having to play any more moves. This does not exclude that the move is followed by a number of automatic hypothetical moves ('*after-moves*') to determine that the termination condition is indeed fulfilled, and what the game result should be. (E.g. *checkmating* terminates an orthodox Chess game, but two more hypothetical half-moves would have to follow to establish whether the royal can indeed not escape capture.)

After-move:

An after-move is a move in a hypothetical continuation of a *terminated* game for the purpose of determining whether the termination condition was fulfilled, was reached through a move that was *legal*, or what the game result is. E.g. when *baring* the opponent King is a winning game-terminating condition, an after-move can be needed to establish whether the capture that achieved it did not put your own King in *check*. If the result should be adjusted to draw when the bared opponent can counter-bare you through a legal move, two after-moves are needed. In this respect baring differs from capture of a *royal*, which typically does not allow an after-move, and thus never exposes your own royal to anything, so that any pseudo-legal move is also legal. The number of after-moves that should be taken into consideration, and their effect on the game result, is an essential part of definition of the winning condition.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 3, 2020 03:22 PM UTC:

I think the problem here is that there are actually two different forms of 'attacked'. Perhaps it is better to make that explicit by giving them different names, rather than call them the same, and specify under which conditions one definition applies, and under which another. It is hard to foresee whether there will occur cases which would like to use one definition, which we inadvertantly assigned to another. For instance, your criterion of outcome determining doesn't seemt to apply to Tai Shogi: capturing a royal can end the game, but it is not legal for an Emperor (which is a universal leaper, and thus always has every piece in its reach) to do it when the royal was protected. So normally a protected royal is not considered attacked by the opponent's Emperor. So this is a case where legality of the actual capture does matter.

In chess-programmers jargon on uses the qualification 'pseudo-legal' to indicate that rules for checking should not be taken into account. Making the way pieces move dependent on the checking rules indeed introduces recursion in the definition. But it cannot be excluded that this is exactly what the designer of a variant intends. I already mentioned 'Recursive Chess', which is FIDE except that it is not legal to expose your King to capture even for capturing the opponent's King. The recursion is innocent, because it always terminates: there are only two Kings that can be captured. The difference with FIDE can be formulated in terms of an after-move: in FIDE there is no after-move after King capture, so the player whose King is captured can never retaliate; he has already lost. In recursive Chess King capture grants one after-move, and if that also captures a King, the player that made the second capture wins! (Making the first King capture illegal, as it is forbidden to expose yourself to an immediate loss. So you would not be in check by pinned pieces in Recursive Chess.) This is similar to King baring in Shatranj, where the bared player gets an after-move to counter-bare, and salvage a draw that way.

So I think it is better to explicitly distinguish (legal) attack from 'pseudo-legal attack'. The FIDE checking rule could be formulated as "it is not allowed to expose your King to pseudo-legal attack". (IMO any pseudo-legal attack on a King would also be a legal attack, because in FIDE you get no after-move to retaliate after King capture. But not everyone might agree with that interpretation, or even be aware of it, so it is always better to explicitly add the 'pseudo-legal' qualifier.) Similar, in the move rules of Fusion Chess it would be proper to stress that it are pseudo-legal attacks that have consequences for splitting.

To keep the definition of 'attack' simple, we could just take out the word *legal* from the definition I proposed, and add the sentence:

We can distinguish *legal* attacks from *pseudo-legal* attacks, depending on the nature of the involved capture.

where both links would point to the entry for 'legal' in the glossary, with the definition I proposed.

You have a good point about the piece-type-dependent nature of squares being attacked. Chu Shogi forbids Lions to capture each other from a distance, but only when they are protected (i.e. recapture is possible). I have always seen this as a rule similar to the FIDE checking rule, where you cannot expose a Lion to recapture, rather than a King. (Chu Shogi has no checking rule for its King.) So Ln x protected Ln would still be pseudo-legal. There has indeed been discussion whether that rule should be interpreted recursively or not, in cases where more than two Lions are involved. For the Janggi Cannon CxC is always forbidden, though, so it cannot be explained as it not being legal to expose your Cannon. The Ultima Chameleon is another piece that captures different victims with different moves.

The problem with 'attacked' for a square is that it is not obvious what you should imagine to be on it. Most likely the issue of an attacked square comes up in connection with describinbg the move of some piece, and that would make it natural to assume a piece of that type on it. That can still be different from imagining an actual piece moves there, as the disappearence of that piece from its old location could affect whether captures to the square are possible. E.g. a lame Dababba on d1 would not attack f1 when the King is still on e1. Can white castle O-O? I would say not; if the King moves to g1 in two steps, after the first step the Dababba can capture him. So he would be moving through check. If there had been a Cannon on d1, it would have attacked f1 before the castling, but no longer after the first King step. (But of course you would end up in check once you would put the Rook on the other side of the King.)


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 3, 2020 06:53 PM UTC:

I don't like the term pseudo-legal, because it suggests something that is legal-like without actually being legal. For example, pseudoscience is understood to be fake science, not something that could sometimes be real science but doesn't have to be.

I agree, but it happens to be the standard term. It is a very useful concept, so I think that when we don't like the name, we should just find another name for it. I already coined the term 'valid move'. I suppose 'semi-legal' suffers from the same problem as 'pseudo-legal'. 'Proper move' would be another possibility. A problem is that for these terms it is not obvious that they might conflict with legality. How about 'near-legal' or 'close-to-legal'?

This is covered by the condition that it has to have a capturing move to the space. An emperor does not have a capturing move to a space occupied by a protected royal piece.

I don't think so. The Emperor does have a pseudo-legal move to that square. That it cannot use it is just because it would expose itself (the royal) to capture, just as moving a pinned piece would. So if you mention pins as an example of things that should not be taken into account for game-terminating moves, it is not obvious at all (and would even be very illogical) that stepping into check with the royal itself would not be excluded too. Note that in the FIDE case K x K is allowed, even when the captured King is protected: I cannot step my King next to the enemy King even when my King is protected there. You would be able to do that in Recursive Chess, btw.


Castling Rules in Chess Variants. An investigation of castling rules in chess and chess variants.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 4, 2020 07:20 AM UTC:

Some remarks:

'Castle' in Xiangqi is really unusual; in almost every description in English I have seen, the 3x3 area is called 'Palace'.

Shogi does not have a castling move, but almost every text on Shogi strategy will tell you that the first thing you have to do in the game is 'castling', and then describe a large number of castle formations, usually with the King in or near a corner. I am not sure if we should refer to this different meaning of 'castling' in Shogi. Perhaps we could add a sentence that a 'castle' is a defensive constellation of pieces around the King near a corner (e.g. after you mentioned that the increased piece power made a centralized King unsafe). And that in Chess moving your King there (either through a special leap or the slow way) would trap the Rook, so that a single move has been provided to get the King in the corner without trapping the Rook in Chess. (In Shogi the corner piece of course is a Lance, which is trapped on the edge file by its own move, and it is usually integrated in the castle.

Fergus already remarked this: in some variants castling with pieces other than Rooks is possible. This should certainly be mentioned.

In the description of Fast Castling you don't mention whether it is allowed if any of the squares the King leaps over is under attack.

Perhaps we should mention something about notation for flexible/free castling (recommend one)?

Since you mention the terminology used in the ChessV option, you could perhaps also mention the XBetza notation for these types: O = castling, jO = close-rook castling, (usually prefixed with 'is' to stress that it is a sideways virgin-only move), the range indicator specifies the number of King steps, for flexible castling all possible castlings are mentioned separately. (XBetza does not support free or fast castling yet. I assume this would have to be done as a different atom, say S, because it is sort of a King-Rook swap. Where free castling would be nS (non-jumping), and fast castling S.)

ChessV's designation 'long' for Janus-Chess castling conflicts with the more common use of "long" for Q-side castling. I usually say 'asymmetric castling' when I refer to Janus Chess, although writing this makes me realize that I might as well call it 'symmetric castling', as the end result is the same K-side and Q-side. Perhaps 'symmetrized castling' would describe it best. In XBetza notation I have to define castling to the left and to the right as separate moves in Janus Chess (irO3 and ilO4). And because the setup is mirror-symmetric, left and right are swapped for black, meaning that the white and black King have different moves. Very annoying! In the Interactive Diagram I added an option castleFlip for this that automatically swaps the meaning of l and r on black castling specifications, so that the Kings can still be considered the same piece type. (Perhaps the meaning of l and r should always be swapped for black pieces in games with mirror-symmetric setups???)

 


A Glossary of Basic Chess Variant Terms. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 4, 2020 08:09 AM UTC:

Yeah, the shear size of Tai Shogi so far deterred me from making a page for it. You could look at Maka Dai Dai Shogi, though: this uses the same Emperor (except that you can only get it through promotion). This says:

The Emperor is a Universal Leaper: it can move to any square of the board. It cannot capture enemy pieces that are protected, though. That even holds for capturing the opponent's last royal. Protected here means that the Emperor could have been recaptured if the opponent would have been allowed to play on without royal.

In FIDE a King cannot capture a protected piece, but it can capture a protected King, so it is illegal to put it next to your opponent's King even when protected. For Emperors the opposite holds: you cannot capture a protected Emperor with it. (This difference is due to the after-move, and in the description of the Emperor I elaborate on the initial statement in terms of such an after-move.) Note that the historic rule descriptions of these games are very minimal. So it is not really known if the ban to expose your Emperor to capture is for every move, for every capture or just for capturing the opponent's last royal. Because no one in his right mind would ever even consider exposing his Emperor to capture if it would not be for the purpose of instantly winning the game or taking out the opponent Emperor, they don't waste words on it. Were the game to continue, being an Emperor behind means a certain loss. Also, Shogi is usually played under the rule "illegal move = loss", as opposed to FIDE, where "illegal move = take back". So it is completely pointless to make extra rules that make losing moves illegal in Shogi.

Anyway, this ignores the main point: the purpose of the glossary is to clarify matters by assigning unique meanings to concepts that universally apply. Not to promote confusion by making the definition of a term context dependent, possibly in an undesired way. If a term is ambiguous because its meaning depends on context, its use should be discouraged. If we describe such terms, it would be wise to accompany those with a warning like:

The meaning of this term is context-dependent, and to minimize confusion due to incorrect interpretation of the context, it should not be used in rule descriptions.


H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 4, 2020 02:53 PM UTC:

'Illegal position' is not something that is defined in the FIDE rules, or anywhere else I am aware of. There just are illegal moves, and those are moves that violate at least one game rule. You could of course define an illegal position as the position that arises from an illegal move, but they are not always recognizable: if I start a FIDE game with 1. Nxh8 that would definitely be an illegal move, but the same position could also have been reached through legal moves, so it cannot be an illegal position. Castling through check or out of check is an illegal move in FIDE, but the resulting position can be fine.

There is a universal restriction on all pieces to not make illegal moves. That is what 'illegal' means. What actually is legal and what not depends on the detailed game rules. In some games it is illegal to castle when your King is attacked, in others it it is illegal to capture a Lion with a Lion when the latter is protected, in some games it is illegal to capture an Emperor with an Emperor when the latter is protected. In some CVs it is illegal for Kings to stand next to each other, in other CVs there is nothing against it, or they are not even allowed to face each other from a distance. There is nothing universal about that.

So no, I don't think we are talking about different things at all. Pseudo-legal moves are moves that a piece has considering the occupation of the departure square, target square and possibly the squares along the path that it is supposed to take to get to the latter. Like in move diagrams. What is on the board outside the path taken in one of the possible moves has no effect on the pseudo-legality of the latter. (Even if it is in the path of other moves the piece might have!) For an orthodox King the pseudo-legal moves would be the adjacent squares not occupied by a friendly piece, for an Emperor it is the entire board except squares occupied by friendly pieces. (There is no path, as it is a leaper, so the pseudo-legality of each move only depends on the departure and destination square, just as with the King.) There just are some additional game rules that might cause a pseudo-legal move to be in fact illegal, such as that you cannot go there if the the square is under pseudo-legal attack, unless the enemy King is on it. Or that you cannot go there if the square is under pseudo-legal attack and there is an Emperor there.

The rules for game-terminating moves can seem different from what they are in the pre-termination part of the game, e.g. after a King strolls into check (illegal!) you are allowed to capture it with a pinned piece, while during the game that would never be possible. But that doesn't mean they have to be different in a universal way. Each CV can specify its own rules for the after-moves. In fact the difference with the pre-termination rules can often be made to disappear by just having rules for the number of after-moves granted in various situations ('normal' move, capture of royal, baring a royal, reaching a goal square). But then that number of after-moves can arbitrarily vary from CV to CV, there is nothing universal about that. And a different number of after-moves translates into seemingly different rules for the (after-)moves that preceded them.

We are spending way too much attention on Tai Shogi, which was just one example (and because of its multiple royals, a rather complex one). Better focus on Recursive Chess, where King capture is not legal when it exposes your own King to capture on the next move.


H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 4, 2020 09:33 PM UTC:

So, by the definition you gave here, it has the pseudo-legal move to capture exactly as a Rook does.

That is correct, and intended. Rules about passing through check are on par with rules about moving into check. It is often easiest to interpret passing through check as exposing the royal to (generalized) e.p. capture. The latter kicks in when a pseudo-legal move is defined as 'composite' rather than 'monolithic'. (I make these terms up as I go...) There then is an extra rule that in the next turn the opponent has the right to partly retract an immediately preceding composite move before making his own move, provided the latter captures the moving piece (perhaps only with a sub-set of the piece types). In orthodox Chess the Pawn double-push and castling are composit moves, and the opponent can make the doubly-pushed Pawn go back to the square it passed through, and capture it there in the normal way (but only with a Pawn). After castling, he can 'uncastle' to the point where the King has made the first step, and then capture the King there with any piece. With as a result that the castling was illegal, as you are not allowed to expose your King to capture.

Passing through check, like for the Caissa Brittania Queen, could work the same. The pseudo-legal move does pass through check, but it is composit. If an actual move would pass through check, the opponent would undo it to the point where the Queen was in check, and capture it there. (Again any piece type could do this.) Thus demonstrating that the move that passed through check exposed the Queen to capture, and thus was illegal. The necessary condition, however, is that the opponent should get to move again. If there is no after-move after capturing a royal, Q x Q could pass through check safely. The possibility to recapture e.p. is worth just as little as the possibility to recapture in the ordinary way, when you lost your royal.

If in Fusion Chess the right to split up depends on being attacked, and there are pieces that are not allowed to pass through check, it is up to the designer to decide if the splitting rights are derived from pseudo-legal attack, or from legal attack only.

I had a similar dilemma in Mighty Lion Chess. I wanted to have the Chu-Shogi rule that Lions cannot capture protected Lions in a Chess-like game (that has checking rules). For simplicity I decided that pseudo-legal protection would be enough. Which is equivalent to saying that there is no after-move when a Lion that just captured a Lion is recaptured. So you don't have to worry about exposing your King in check when recapturing that Lion, it is immediately decisive, just like when you capture a King. This rule makes the Lion effectively a second (absolute) royal for one turn after Ln x Ln.

To comment on Greg's point: Fusion Chess (old rules) would be double complicated, because the legality involves not only exposure of the royal, but also has to take account of whether it passed through check. The latter is already a pain in itself, because you would also have to test all the square on the path of the royal after it moved, not just where it is now. Probably testing this afterwards, as my engines do for normal King exposure, is no longer efficient, since many moves of the royal might all pass through the same check. Same for the split: all moves of the parts would become illegal together when you detect an attack. I guess you ccould exploit the null move here very well: if every node in the full-width search starts searching a null move, the move generation for the null-move reply would detect all pseudo-legal attacks on fused pieces. And even when the null move drops you directly into QS, you would search these moves, since these are all captures. In that QS any captures by royals would have to be vetted for not passing through check, and they could return the score for 'illegal move' when they do pass through or move into check. The null-move could then discard those pseudo-legal attacks. Only problem is that when you get a beta cutoff, you know that the null move has failed low, and thatthe parent node will now have to do a normal search. For which it has to know the legality of all the splits. So you would be forced to search all captures of fused pieces in the null-move reply, even after beta cutoff. (Or at least judge their legality, which probably requires making them.) That is, as soon as you have found one legal capture on a fusion piece, you can ignore all other pseudo-legal captures on it if the score is already above beta. In the end you would know which fusion pieces are under legal attack, pass that info back to the parent, who would then use it during its move generation. As I understand that you cannot capture with a split, there is no splitting in QS, and it doesn't matter that you don't search null moves there.


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 5, 2020 10:30 AM UTC:

I am still a bit worried about the second definition, for the case when the square in question is already occupied in such a way that moving there would mean capturing our own piece. Someone might interpret it as "but you cannot move there, so it is not under attack". Of course in that case the piece already on the square will usually be under attack. (But not if there is a type-discriminating attacker.)

I still would think it would be good to mention that attacks can also be pseudo-legal (if explicitly labeled such), with basically the same definition instead that 'legal capture' in that case would be replaced by pseudo-legal capture.

Some more thoughts about pseudo-legal moves: in complex cases it could be murky what you consider the 'path' taken by the piece. For simple sliders or hoppers this is of course obvious. Even for bent hoppers that change direction on or behind their mount the path is intuitively clear. But Mats Winther has designed some 'bifurcator pieces' that would change direction on the square before they collide with an obstacle. The obstacle then doesn't seem to be in the path, (although it is definitely in the path of other potential moves), and the bifurcator doesn't seem to hop. But yet the obstacle affects the move. The situation could be rescued by the interpretation that the path actually does go over the obstacle, turns 90-degrees (say left) there, and immediately after stepping off the obstacle, 45-degree right again. Then it would actually be a hopper ('crypto-hopper'?), with a straight first-leg, but a bent second leg at an angle.

It is even worse for 'deflecting' sliders, which would bend their trajectory 45 degrees when the square perpendicularly next to a square they are passing through is occupied (and on the opposit side empty), in the direction of that occupant. There the 'zone of influence' is not just the path where the slider could be blocked, but also all squares lying next to it. Still only a sub-set of the board, but it starts to be uncomfortably large.

The worst I could come up with was a variant 'Gravitational Chess', where sliders do not move in straight lines, but every time they pass next to a piece experience its gravitational pull and change direction. If they pass between two occupied squares, the gravitational pull cancels, and they keep going as they went. This arbitrary many times.

The Rook here could move g1-g2-g3(2P cancel)-g4-f5(P)-e5(N)-d4(N)-c3-b3(wP)-a4(wP)-a5(bP)-b6(bP)-c7-d8, with in parentheses the piece that deflects it to that square.

Depending on the actual position, a piece in this CV could have any trajectory. It is like a Tenjiku-Shogi area move of arbitrary many King steps that can arbitrarily change direction for every step. One could say all King tours through empty squares ending on an empty square or opponent are pseudo-legal. But only a very small fraction of those would be legal, depending on whether they make the right bend when they pass next to other pieces.


Tenjiku Shogi. Fire Demons burn surrounding enemies, Generals capture jumping many pieces. (16x16, Cells: 256) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 8, 2020 02:08 PM UTC:

Historic rule descriptions are quite minimal, and in particular do not waste words on purely hypothetical matters. Turn passing is one such thing, as you never would want to do it in the first place. There also can never be a reason to not promote a Lion, so an unpromoted Lion in the zone that wants to pass a turn would be a double rarity. For Falcons and Eagles this is a different matter, as they might actually be more valuable than the BG and RG they promote to. (It seems these promotions were assigned mainly as leftovers.) Especially in a late end-game, when there is almost nothing on the board you could jump over. No way I would want to convert my Eagle to a Rook General when so few pieces are left that I could be in zugzwang...

Promotion rule is such that you can only promote on a noncapture when you enter the zone. It seems to me a turn-pass should count as a non-capture. So if you are already in the zone, definitely no promotion.

A more interesting question is whether they could promote when they are just outside the zone, and capture a piece in it through igui. Since promotion is at the end of a turn, I would say that after a turn pass you did not enter it. If you see it as a double move, the first move would enter it, but would not allow you to promote because it is not the end of your turn. The second move would not allow you to promote because it did not enter the zone and doesn't capture anything.


📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 8, 2020 06:54 PM UTC:

I am not sure that is the case. And the way I described the rules it would not be. It starts and ends its move outside the zone, and that did not fit my idea of "entering the zone". But I admit that historic rules give no clue about this.


📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 8, 2020 09:28 PM UTC:

I definitely agree that unmentioned rules should be understood to be the same as in Chu Shogi. That lion-power moves should be broken up in two steps in Chu is not so obvious, though. In fact I have strong disagreement about that with the Chu-Shogi renmei, in connection with the Lion-trading rules. The disputed case is when you make a double-capture on Pawn + Lion, where the Lion was standing in front of the Pawn. My interpretation of 'protected' is that recapture should be possible. The historic rule descriptions, by mentioning the case of a 'hidden protector', tell us that you have to judge the situation after the move, not before. The whole idea of those rules, after all, is to prevent Lion trading, and when there is no recapture, there can be no trading. The Chu-Shogi renmei, however, claims that my interpretation implies that the move is made in two parts, and that only after the first, which takes the Pawn, the Lion has become unprotected. And they insist that protection must be measured before the move, and has nothing to do with recapture. And then they continue by saying that you cannot split the move in parts and consider those as independent moves, so that the doomed Pawn would count as a protector.

Also note that 'igui' seems to mean 'stationary eating', and 'stationary' usually means you don't move at all. So one could argue that the underlying philosophy that led to that name is that the Lion never visits the zone when it takes a piece in it through igui.


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H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 13, 2020 08:05 PM UTC:

I have a problem uploading graphics. I have made some new images of shogi kanji tiles, and wanted to add those to the existing set in my Chu Shogi article (which currently only covers Chu Shogi). So that the diagrams for larger variants no longer have missing tiles when they use that image set.

Unfortunately the upload script is broken: it complains the directory /membergraphics/MSchu-shogi does not exist. It is probably right about that, because that is also not where the existing images are: these are in /membergraphics/MSchushogi...


H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 13, 2020 09:15 PM UTC:

I was using the "Upload or Manage Files" link in the article. If I paste that URL in the address bar it says

"You must be an editor of this site or an author of the item MSchushogi to use this script."


H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 13, 2020 09:40 PM UTC:

It still says the same:

" The directory /membergraphics/MSchu-shogi/ does not exist. "

About which it is absolutely right: it does not exist. If I try to access it directly with the browser I get a 404 error. Problem is that it it wants to put the graphics there, and not in the directory that does exist (where it put it before).


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 14, 2020 09:01 AM UTC:

Ah OK, sorry I did misunderstand that. The response to the URL you gave me was:

authorid is "", authorid2 is "", personid is "HGMuller"

You must be an editor of this site or an author of the item MSchushogi to use this script.

Things have improved a bit since yesterday: the Upload or Manage Files links in the Chu Shogi article now brings me to a nice overview of all the uploaded images. So the problem with the directory naming seems solved. But when I actually try to upload a file, it prints the same message as above.


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 14, 2020 08:58 PM UTC:

Yes, it worked. I used it to upload the missing kanji-tiles needed by the Dai Shogi and Tengu Dai Shogi articles.


How to Design and Post Your Own Game. A reference for those who want to post their own games here.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, May 16, 2020 11:59 AM UTC:

... caching of the original images can cause you to see the wrong image ...

Indeed, I also have this problem after uploading an image to replace one that was accidentally uploaded under a wrong name. It keeps displaying the old image. As a consequence it now displays a Go Between for the black Golden Bird, and and White Elephants for the Western Barbarians, in the 1-kanji tile set for Dai Dai Shogi.


Man. Moves to any adjacent square, like a King, but not royal.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 18, 2020 09:34 AM UTC:

I've added the checkmating potential note to this page.

Nice! But perhaps you should also mention that the man loses this mating potential on boards of size 15x15 or larger. Also note that the symbol used for Man in the WinBoard/XBoard GUI is


How to Design and Post Your Own Game. A reference for those who want to post their own games here.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 18, 2020 10:29 AM UTC:

@Fergus: Would it be easy for you to have the upload manager also accept archives (e.g. .zip or .tar.gz), and unpack those in the upload directory for the article? It is really very tedious now to upload a large set of piece images one by one.


Man. Moves to any adjacent square, like a King, but not royal.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 18, 2020 03:48 PM UTC:

Is 14x14 or 15x15 too large to generate the endgame table in an online setting?

I am not sure how far this can be pushed. It probably depends on the computers people use. But some people might want to try it on a phone... I suppose we would like it to work for almost everyone.

The problem is that the required amount of memory increases very aggressively with board size. With 3 pieces on an NxN board you have N^6 possible positions. So going from N=8 to N=16 requires 64 times as much memory. The time it takes would be proportional to size. For 3 pieces even 16x16 only requires 16MB, which by today's standards is small. So I suppose that can be done, and based on how long it takes now, it would then take some 10 sec to generate the table. I will have a look at it.


How to Design and Post Your Own Game. A reference for those who want to post their own games here.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 18, 2020 03:55 PM UTC:

... I can't let archives unpack indiscriminately, because that would allow hackers to upload server-side scripts.

Indeed, that is a worry. Is the server configured to execute scripts anywhere, or just in some designated directories? It should still be made impossible to unpack anywhere outside the directory intended for the article. But I suppose that archiving commands to extract files can be called in a way that they ignore directory structure, and save everything in the current directory.

Savest would probaby be to extract everything to a temporary directory not accessible through the net, and then only copy files with some allowed extensions to the target directory, and delete what is left over.


H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, May 18, 2020 09:56 PM UTC:

This worked like a charm, thanks! Indeed no need for archives. I uploaded the entire set of 2-kanji tiles for the large Shogi variants to the Maka Dai Dai Shogi graphics directory in a flash.

I did detect an irregularity, though: the directory to which I now uploaded (/membergraphics/MSmakadaidaishogi) was initially empty. Which surprised me, because I did have two images in the article. On closer inspection, it turned out that these images are in /membergraphics/MSmakadaidaishog , i.e. without the final 'i'. Apparently the old upload script had clipped the filename. So these old image files are now outside my grasp to manage. (Not that there is any need for that now, but I still wanted to report it.)


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 19, 2020 09:05 AM UTC:

Ummm... It did not work as well as I thought. Now that I pointed the Interactive Diagram for Maka Dai Dai Shogi to its own graphics directory, rather than to my own website, only 20 piece types show up. Turns out the MSmakadaidaishogi directory indeed only contains 20 PNG files. The remaining tile images (of 312) were not uploaded.

Perhaps I am using it wrong? What I did was click 'Browse' in the upload manager, sype Ctrl-A in the file-browse dialog's main window to select all files, press "Open" in that dialog (so it closes), and finally press "Upload" in the upload manager. (Using FireFox on a Windows PC.)


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 19, 2020 05:00 PM UTC:

OK, too bad. But you are right, the large Shogi variants are a bit extreme in every way, and we probably won't encounter many other cases. It would indeed help me a lot if you could unpack the archive in MSmakadaidaishogi, even with 20 at the time it would be a lot of work to get them all there.

The archive is at http://hgm.nubati.net/2kanji.tar.gz .

Thanks!


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Omega Chess. Rules for commercial chess variant on board with 104 squares. (12x12, Cells: 104) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 26, 2020 07:24 PM UTC:

Are you sure about those numbers? I cannot do the Omega Chess board, but my EGT generator for a plain 10x10 board says KBNK maximally takes 47 moves (average 39.4), and Knight + Wizard maximally 48 moves (average 40.1). I can imagine that having the Wizard squares could take 2 or 3 moves extra, but not nearly as much as what you mention. The hard part is usually to get the bare King in the desired corner. For Bishop + Knight it might not take any extra moves, as in the standard mating patterns the Bishop would automatically attack the Wizard square as well.

I agree that 50 moves does not leave much room for errors, and in general it can take longer to make progress in large games.

[Edit] Oh, I now also see your previous comment. And no, Kevin did not misunderstand me; for maximum DTM with a WD on 10x10 I get 52 moves, while 95.7% of the positions with the strong side to move are forced wins (see table below). On the Omega board this is of course no longer true; not even a Rook can force mate there. The WAD probably doesn't fare any better.

$ ./3men10x10 KwK
allocate 1010064 at 6d0040
        mated    mate
King captures 129224
mates      16         ( 0.01 sec)
in-1       40      64 ( 0.01 sec)
in-2      208     248 ( 0.01 sec)
in-3       88     916 ( 0.01 sec)
in-4      300     624 ( 0.01 sec)
in-5      224    1428 ( 0.02 sec)
in-6      468     768 ( 0.02 sec)
in-7      528    1696 ( 0.02 sec)
in-8      468    1728 ( 0.02 sec)
in-9      400    1836 ( 0.02 sec)
in-10     480    1080 ( 0.03 sec)
in-11     396    1328 ( 0.03 sec)
in-12     312    1416 ( 0.03 sec)
in-13     512    1192 ( 0.03 sec)
in-14     304    1656 ( 0.03 sec)
in-15      72     812 ( 0.04 sec)
in-16      56     304 ( 0.04 sec)
in-17      80     280 ( 0.04 sec)
in-18     168     392 ( 0.04 sec)
in-19     468     712 ( 0.04 sec)
in-20     768    1408 ( 0.04 sec)
in-21     768    2096 ( 0.04 sec)
in-22     708    2152 ( 0.05 sec)
in-23    1056    2080 ( 0.05 sec)
in-24     908    2812 ( 0.05 sec)
in-25    1640    2620 ( 0.05 sec)
in-26    1376    4128 ( 0.06 sec)
in-27    1516    3720 ( 0.06 sec)
in-28    3944    4524 ( 0.06 sec)
in-29    4536   10044 ( 0.06 sec)
in-30    6588   11060 ( 0.07 sec)
in-31    9456   15224 ( 0.07 sec)
in-32   15880   20516 ( 0.08 sec)
in-33   27248   32184 ( 0.09 sec)
in-34   33956   48452 ( 0.10 sec)
in-35   45448   56908 ( 0.12 sec)
in-36   60972   71044 ( 0.13 sec)
in-37   77556   89008 ( 0.15 sec)
in-38   88852  100212 ( 0.17 sec)
in-39   86540   90180 ( 0.19 sec)
in-40   81708   71664 ( 0.21 sec)
in-41   57772   46460 ( 0.22 sec)
in-42   40900   31352 ( 0.23 sec)
in-43   25296   20336 ( 0.24 sec)
in-44   19160   15656 ( 0.25 sec)
in-45   12944   11152 ( 0.25 sec)
in-46    8928    6976 ( 0.25 sec)
in-47    5456    4136 ( 0.26 sec)
in-48    2520    1968 ( 0.26 sec)
in-49     912     696 ( 0.26 sec)
in-50     224     200 ( 0.26 sec)
in-51      72      56 ( 0.26 sec)
in-52      32      16 ( 0.26 sec)
in-53       0       0 ( 0.27 sec)
won:     928744 ( 95.7%)
lost:    731228 ( 75.4%)
avg:       37.9 moves

H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, May 26, 2020 08:28 PM UTC:

And WD on 8x8 can be tried here. It doesn't seem to have much difficulty forcing checkmate against any play, even though it starts in a generally unfavorable position (with the strong side crammed in a corner.) For a piece like WD it could be worse if it starts in the corner opposite from its own King; then there are positions where it is 'dynamically trapped', when it is on the same diagonal as the bare King.


H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, May 27, 2020 08:46 PM UTC:

@Bruce:

I converted my 4-men EGT generator to doing the Omega Chess board. (I mapped the board into an 11x12, and then it effectively only needs 122 elements, as neighboring boards can be partly interleaved.)

Oddly enough this confirms the numbers you gave for Bishop+Knight and Wizard+Knight!

What I had not realized is that these end-games are not generally won at all, but are mosty fortress draws: you can only deliver mate in the corner of the Bishop's/Wizard's shade, as you need to cover both the corner and the Wizard square, or the King will simply escape to the latter. And if the bare King takes shelter in the other corner there is no way to smoke him out of the Wizard square there. So you have to go through excessive trouble to prevent the bare King fleeing into that corner, which apparently causes an enormous slowdown. On a normal board it is easy to drive the King along the edge from one corner to the other, so trying to reach whatever corner is not a good defensive strategy there.

As a consequence, only 38.3% of the KBNK positions are won (22.3% lost), and 33.7% of the KWNK positions (17.9% lost). Against 99.8%won / 81% lost on regular 10x10.

Your 3-men generator seems buggy, though; as the checkmating applet here shows, WD is a quite easy win on 8x8.


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Odin's Rune Chess. A game inspired by Carl Jung's concept of synchronicity, runes, and Nordic Mythology. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, May 28, 2020 06:49 PM UTC:

Why does it say stalemate is not possible? It seems the diagram of which it is claimed the best Valkyrie move is capturing the Forest Ox (Vf1xf7) actually leads directly into stalemate, through that move. After it black has no legal moves, and after hypothetical null move white cannot capture both his Kings at once, so he is not in check either. (And besides, the last black piece could have been taken elsewhere, so that neither black King would have been under attack.)


H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 29, 2020 08:22 AM UTC:

But turn passing is not allowed in this game. If you read back on earlier comments to this game, one even goes so far as to state that when you can make pseudo-legal moves that would not change the board, (like using a Valkyrie's swapping move to swap it with your other Valkyrie), such a move would be illegal, because it is equivalent to a turn pass. Of course you don't even have such a move here.


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Odin's Rune Chess. A game inspired by Carl Jung's concept of synchronicity, runes, and Nordic Mythology. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, May 29, 2020 05:17 PM UTC:

Ah, I overlooked the addendum. So I guess what was really meant is "stalemate is a win". In fact stalemate is far more frequent here than in orthodox Chess. In the latter case the King has to be robbed of its legal moves by attacking all squares adjacent to it. Here you don't have to attack anything, as the King has no moves to begin with.

I guess you could also say that baring the King(s) is a win. But that is not the only way to get a stalemate. One or two Kings could block all moves of one, or even two Pawns.

Black to move is stalemated!

[Edit] This was very wrong; I failed to notice the Pawns also have backward moves. So I suppose the only stalemates are those where you have nothing but Kings.


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Betza Notation. A primer on the leading shorthand for describing variant piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, May 30, 2020 06:42 PM UTC:

The 'unload' modifier

I have been working on an extension of XBetza notation in WinBoard/XBoard: the 'u' modifier. This stands for 'unload', meaning a piece that was captured elsewhere is not removed from play, but reappears in a new location. This to allow pieces that displace others.

After some thinking it occurred to me that it would be best to have a move that has a 'u' modifier to unload the piece on the starting square of that move. This in contrast to other mode specifiers (such as 'm' or 'c'), which specify what the move can do on the destination square. This because the destination square is bound to be occupied by the piece that moves, while the starting square will naturally be emptied. Of course this could be cured by having unloads only on the destination square of a non-final leg of a multi-leg move, but that would just lead to complex representation of simple moves.

So ucR now means a Rook move that captures on the destination, but unloads that captured piece on its starting square. In other word, a move that can swap location with an enemy piece. Similarly, udR would describe a swap with a firendly piece, as in XBetza 'd' stands for "capture friend".

Of course it is possible to use the 'u' in a multi-leg move as well. E.g. afudQ would describe a Queen with a two-leg move. The first leg to an empty square ('m' is the default mode for non-final legs in XBetza), the second leg continuing (as Q) in the same direction ('f'), and doing the friendly swap (udQ). Normally a slider move continuing in the same direction would be pointless. (Well, not entirely; it guarantees the length of the move is at least 2.) But now that the intermediate square (start square of the second leg) is used for unloading, it suddenly becomes relevant where on the path it is. Like with locust captures, the user entering a move would first have to select the intermediate square (which WinBoard indicates by highlighting it in cyan, as with locust victims). After which the target square(s) get marked (in this case only one), and clicking on that would finish the move, where the piece in the destination is bumped to the intermediate square. This is part of the Valkyrie move in Odin's Rune Chess. The full Valkyrie would be QudQafudQ, a normal Queen, a Queen that swaps position with a friend, and a Queen that displaces a friend to a formerly empty square on the path it took.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 31, 2020 02:39 PM UTC:

Move induction

In Knight-relay Chess a Knight induces extra Knight moves in friendly pieces that are a Knight jump away from it. In the Interactive Diagram I used an ad-hoc extension to the move description to indicate such a thing, by considering the induction step (from inductor to induced piece) plus the induced move as a single multi-leg move. The first leg of this move then carried an 'x' modifier, indicating that it wasn't a real move, but just an interaction that 'excited' the target to make the step described in the following leg(s). In XBetza notation, where legs are separated by 'a', this would be xaN. So far so good.

But in Odin's Rune Chess, the King doesn't have a move of its own, but can move as any of the adjacent friendly pieces. To describe that with move induction would be awkward; every non-royal piece must be an inductor, but they would not induce their move on any piece, just on the King. They would be selective move inductors, and so far XBetza has no device to specify such selectivity.

But then it dawned on me that I was looking at this from the wrong perspective. The non-royal pieces in Odin't Rune Chess are not (selective) move inductors, but it is a universal property of the King, which is a move borrower. If we could define a move descriptor for that, it would only have to be applied to the King, and would not have to be type-selective.

Fortunately the same 'x' can be used to indicate this, by strapping it on the final leg of a multi-leg move (or on a simple move); its use in move induction will always be in a non-final leg, as the induced move must follow. So if no move follows an x-leg, it can be taken to mean reverse excitation, from target to source, instead of from source to target. The King in Odin's Rune Chess would then be fully described by the XBetza notation xK: borrow moves from pieces a King step away.

I wonder if this system is universal enough to handle most cases of move induction that occur in CVs. Are there any other variants that use move induction? I only know of Scirocco, where the Dervish, and its promoted form the Harpy, are universal move inducers similar to the Knight in Knight Relay Chess.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 31, 2020 06:14 PM UTC:

Ummm... That could indeed be seen as some sort of induced move. One difference with the previous cases is that it induced by a foe rather than a friend. So far the 'x' modifier was only assumed to work on friends. I guess 'x' could be defined as a 'combining modifier', so that xc doesn't mean you can capture or induce, but means you can only induce foes. (And then xd for friends.) This is not unprecedented in Betza notation; e.g. in frF the f and r also combine, to indicate the intermediate direction.

But a reciprocal capturer is pretty awful to describe. You would either need to make every other piece a selective inducer acting only on the Mimotaur, or treat the latter as a move borrower. Which would have to make it borrow through a host of different moves, each type-specific, and furthermore raise the problem that it should only borrow the move in that direction. An alternative is to equip the Mimotaur with a host of different type-specific captures. If you would need type-specifity anyway, that would be a lot simpler than treating it as induction. But imagine how long the move description would get if you would add a Mimotaur to Tai Shogi...

None of these solutions seems very appealing. Yet the idea of reciprocal capture is not so outlandish; the Ultima Chameleon has it too. (Of course in that game it must then capture in all kinds of weird ways, rather than through all kinds of moves.) I would be inclined to solve it in a completely different way. XBetza notation has used up almost the entire lower-case alphabet, but capitals are still plentiful. So it seems a workable idea to define a new atom (say M for Mirror) that does not have a fixed move, but borrows the move from another involved piece. So cM would mean reciprocal capture.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 31, 2020 07:39 PM UTC:

I guess that if we are adding new, flexible-move atoms, having I for Imitator (i.e. a piece that moves as the previously moved piece type) could be a useful addition too. This is also a reasonably common occurrence.


Maka Dai Dai Shogi. Pieces promote on capture, some to multi-capturing monsters. (19x19, Cells: 361) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, May 31, 2020 09:40 PM UTC:

I used XBoard, which I hacked to save all the PGN renderings of its pieces to separate files. XBoard works with external SVG piece images, and has a fall-back scheme where it first replaces a piece which it cannot find the image file for in the user-specified pieceImageDirectory by a file White/BlackTile.svg, before trying other options. So if you let it use a direcory that only contains a file with a blank Shogi tile, it will use it for all the pieces. XBoard works by internally rendering the SVG to raster images of the current square size, and uses those to draw on any board it wants to display. I just intercepted the produced raster images, and let it save those to PNG files.

And then it has an option -inscriptions, which can contain an arbitrary unicode string, where the individual or pairs of characters are printed over the pieces. So I just copy-pasted all the kanji from the Wikipedia pages to make such a string, set XBoard to the desired square size, et voila! Then I had to rename all the saved PNG files, so I could do the next batch. Still took me more than a day to get them all; I had to tweek the kanji-inscription procedure for some of the pieces to prevent the kanji from overlapping; especially the 'general' kanji was written higher than the others.


Betza Notation. A primer on the leading shorthand for describing variant piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, Jun 1, 2020 05:30 AM UTC:

Well, I suppose that those discussions mainly were about what should be considered 'in check' or 'passing through check' in the presence of an Imitator. And that isn't really a subtlety of the Imitator, but of the checking rule employed by the CV. That is outside the scope of Betza notation, which only has the purpose of indicating pseudo-legal moves.

The main problem I see is whether the imitation is 'recursive', in the sense that it would be able to imitate a previous imitator. The same problem exists with move borrowing, btw. The way I currently implemented that in XBoard aims to be non-recursive. Because Odin't Rune Chess defined it that way, but also because recursive borrowing easily leads to infinite recursions, when two move borrowers can borrow from each other. You would have to keep track of which pieces you already borrowed from. Or better yet, which moves you already borrowed, so that you would never generate duplicat move. For XBetza duplicats are not a crime, though; you can for instance say KR or DR, where the first is sloppy, but a unique alternative for the second in unreasonably cumbersome.  For Imitation this problem doesn't exist, and I think the most common type would be recursive, imitating the last-moved non-imitator.

There also is the problem whether you imitate special properties of a piece (like promotion), or just the set of target squares. But this problem also exists with move borrowing or induction. E.g. in Knight Relay Chess you cannot promote a Pawn through an induced Knight move. (You cannot even move it to first rank, so this is really a confinement issue.) But promotion is again outside the scope of Betza notation, the latter just describes methods of locomotion. There are some CVs where the set of moves that allow you to promote is not equal to that where you can defer promotion. (In particular micro-Shogi, where you (mandatorily) only promote only on capture, but there also are variants where you can promote on a null move in the zone, while plain null moves are not allowed.) This would be most conveniently described by just giving a separate move description for promoting moves.

There is an article about 'Mimics' here on CVP, which I stumbled on when looking for Mimotaur. It also mentions a 'Strict Imitator', which imitates the actual move, rather than the piece type. I would say that is just another atom.

I try to remain pragmatic; Betza certainly was, with his z and q modifiers. If it is simple and useful, it is worth having, even if it is not perfect in the sense that it can do everything. The way XBoard uses XBetza move descriptions makes it already useful to describe approximate moves, so that it knows what is certainly not pseudo-legal. Having a recursive imitator in the toolkit would certainly be helpful.


H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, Jun 1, 2020 05:10 PM UTC:

I never considered that a serious issue. Is there really any variant where it moves as an opponent Pawn? To me this seems as insane as wondering whether, when it imitates the opponent's Queen, it should capture your own pieces or those of the opponent.


Odin's Rune Chess. A game inspired by Carl Jung's concept of synchronicity, runes, and Nordic Mythology. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Jun 2, 2020 09:16 PM UTC:
files=10 ranks=10 promoZone=1 maxPromote=1 promoChoice=QNBR graphicsDir=http://www.chessvariants.com/membergraphics/MSelven-chess/ whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=png startShade=#20C040 symmetry=mirror pawn::FflarFfralF::a2-j2 forest ox::NmpafsmpacabK:knight:b1,i1 bishop::::c1,h1 rook::::a1,j1 valkyrie::QudQafudQ:queen:d1,g1 king::xK::e1,f1

Odin's Rune Chess

This is a variant with really wild pieces. This made it a challenge to get it right with XBetza notation in the Interactive Diagram. With the aid of the newly implemented 'unload' modifier, and extension of the meaning of 'x' to cases were no move (to induce) follows the x-marked leg (where it then borrows moves from the target, instead of inducing the specified one), it became possible.

The King has the simplest XBetza description of the unorthodox pieces: just xK to indicate it borrows moves from friends a K step away. The Pawn was straightforward, but gets a somewhat lengthy description, because both paths to the square two steps in front of it must be specified separately (because they bend in opposite ways).

The XBetza description of the Valkyrie uses the 'unload' operator for the moves that displace a friendly piece. There are two different kinds of such moves: a plain swap, which is specified as a simple move that unloads at the start when it captures at the end; the 'd' mode in udQ indicates friendly capture. (First-time use in a real variant!) Then there is a more complex move, that involves a third square. The diagram considers this a two-leg move with the unload square as intermediate. So you first have to click the square where the other piece is to end up, and then where the Valkyrie goes.

The Forest Ox is the worst of all. It combines a Knight move with a King-like rifle capture. XBetza cannot forge such different move types into a multi-leg move, so everything has to be reduced to a 'common denominator'. In this case everything is reduced to King steps, meaning that the initial Knight jump becomes two legs, where the intermediate square is made a don't-care w.r.t. the content of the square by allowing both moving and hopping. By using K as basic atom, each N square is reachable through two paths, but as neither is blockable that does not matter. After the first two legs for the Knight jump, two more legs follow for the rifle capture, the first making the capture as a normal capture in any possible direction, the second one to move back (cabK). Because of this description, one has to click the locust victim first, before clicking the target square of the Forest Ox.


Interactive diagrams. Diagrams that interactively show piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Jun 6, 2020 03:34 PM UTC:

Intelligent Diagrams!

I now equipped the diagram with a simple generic AI, so that you can play against it as a demo. It is not very strong; just a simple alpha-beta searcher with a recapture extension instead of an all-capture Quiescence Search, set for a depth of 2 ply. Somewhat like micro-Max 1.6. Except that it doesn't even have good piece values; it guesses these by itself.

Any Interactive Diagram should now automatically have the clickable phrase 'Play it!' on the line below the diagram that also served to open the piece overview. If this is clicked, the AI is switched on, and a button bar will appear. Any move played in the diagram will then automatically be replied to with a move of the opposite color. The diagram will continue to do this until you hide the button bar by clicking the 'Play It!' again. The diagram will collect all moves (both yours and those of the AI) into a game, and the button bar will allow you to navigate through that game.

Nightrider Chess

files=8 ranks=8 graphicsDir=/graphics.dir/alfaerie/ whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=gif squareSize=50 useMarkers=1 maxPromote=1 promoChoice=BRNQ symmetry=mirror pawn::::a2-h2 nightrider::::b1,g1 bishop::::c1,f1 rook::::a1,h1 queen::::d1 king::::e1

On the left is an Interactive Diagram of Nightrider Chess where you can test this. I have no doubt that much can still (and will) be improved, and that some things will be plainly defective, but it is a start. (Don't forget to clear your browser cache, or the latter might keep using the old script, which does not have the 'Play It!' link!)


Apothecary Chess-Modern. Large board variant obtained through tinkering with known games.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Jun 7, 2020 07:30 AM UTC:

Simplicity is a hallmark of elegance. So I think it is in general better to not use several completely different mechanisms for introducing pieces on the board. Use gating, dropping or brouhaha squares, but then stick to the method of choice.

Of course a question could be: why use any of these at all? What does it add to the game that some of the pieces start on brouhaha squares? They still have to make the first move as if the brouhaha square was a normal board square, so for the pieces themselves it makes no difference. One uses brouhaha squares to prevent distortion of the board regularity, which could interfere with checkmating abilities as these are on rectangular boards, such as the Omega-Chess Wizard squares do. So you can create room for extra pieces without side effects on the board.

But why would you want to create any extra room at all, if you already have so many empty squares on the back rank, in your initial setup?

@Greg & Thor: I used that same 'lonely King' setup in Elven Chess. I did not consider it odd at all. Why would you want the King to start in the front line? This way you have free castling paths immediately, so you don't have to worry about evacuating non-jumping pieces to clear the path, and destroying the Pawn shield in the process.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Jun 7, 2020 09:24 AM UTC:

Well, it delays their development one move, as they can use their F step to move to first rank. Disconnecting the Rooks in the process...

What is the use of giving the Rooks a free rank if you cannot castle with them anyway? Rooks have to move to (half-)open files, and it will take you quite some time before any such file arises, with not only a full rank of Pawns in front of them, but also a rank filled with pieces. By the time a better place to put a Rook emerges, the Wizards and Champions would hardly ever be in the first two ranks or on the brouhaha squares, no matter where you start them.


H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Jun 7, 2020 11:30 AM UTC:

Oh sure, that would be very easy as well. An efficient way to representthe board is by an array much larger than the board itself, and surround a board-sized central area by unmovable and uncapturable 'boundary guard' pieces. Then moves that stray off board will be automatically rejected by the code that prevents capture of your own pieces, without having to test whether it ended on the board proper. So all you do is when a brouhaha square is evacuated, not set it to the code for an empty square but to one for a boundary guard. You could do that by replacing the statement board[fromSqr] = 0; in the MakeMove() routine by board[fromSqr] = shadow[fromSqr]; where the 'shadow' array can be initialized to indicate which squares revert to empty, and which to boundary.

Perhaps I should support brouhaha squares in the Interactive Diagram. It already recognizes the special piece type 'hole', which can used to place boundary guards on the board. (Usually as edge fillers to implement non-rectangular boards, such as for Omega Chess.) I could als have it recognizepiece type 'brouhaha', and use that to place hole on the shadow board instead of the regular one.


Chu Shogi. Historic Japanese favorite, featuring a multi-capturing Lion. (12x12, Cells: 144) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Mon, Jun 8, 2020 05:31 PM UTC:

In an engine I solve this by making a Lion that captured a Lion (from a distance, etc.)  a temporary absolute royal for one turn. Then playing Ln x protected Ln is considered exposing yourself to check. (In my Crazyhouse engine I do something similar to enforce the ban on castling through check: castling initially ends up with the Rook replaced by a second King. After move generation of the opponent (which would detect the King capture) I then replace that by the Rook it should be. After Other x Lion I make the opponent's Lion iron for one move.

All you need is the concept of 'temporary promotion', piece types that at the beginning of their own turn revert to the unpromoted form. And then have some extra types that are royal and iron.

Btw, note that the counter-strike rule on Lions does not hold when the two Lions are captured on the same square. If a Kirin captures a Lion and promotes in that same move (to Lion), it is allowed to recapture it.


Brouhaha. Like Chess, but it really brings the ruckus! (8x8, Cells: 72) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Jun 9, 2020 03:36 PM UTC:
files=10 ranks=10 graphicsDir=/membergraphics/MSelven-chess/ whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=png squareSize=34 useMarkers=1 maxPromote=1 promoChoice=BRSCNQ symmetry=mirror hole::::a1-j1,a2,a3,a4,a5,j2,j3,j4,j5,a10-j10 pawn::::b3-i3 scout::WH:cannon:e1,f1 knight::::c2,h2 bishop::::d2,g2 cleric::BDiC:crownedbishop:a1,j1 rook::::b2,i2 queen::::e2 king::KisO2::f2

This is a test to see if the Interactive Diagram handles brouhaha squares well.


H. G. Muller wrote on Tue, Jun 9, 2020 07:18 PM UTC:

Ah, stupid! The diagram makes brouhaha squares by first defining 'holes' (i.e. placing a piece with name 'hole' on all squares youwant to be blacked out), and then later put a piece on that square. But the specification of the holes was not subject to the position symmetry. This was by design, but I still forgot to specify the 10th rank should be holes. Now I did, and it seems to work also for black now.


Musketeer Chess. Adding 2 newly designed extra pieces. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Jun 11, 2020 08:27 AM UTC:
satellite=musketeer files=8 ranks=10 graphicsDir=/membergraphics/MSelven-chess/ whitePrefix=w blackPrefix=b graphicsType=png squareSize=34 useMarkers=1 maxPromote=1 promoZone=2 promoChoice=QMACSELFHURNB symmetry=mirror firstRank=0 autoGate=1 enableAI=2 hole::::a0-h0 pawn::::a2-h2 unicorn::NC:::1 hawk::ADGH:falcon::1 fortress::B3DvN:tower::1 elephant::KAD:::1 leopard::B2N:::1 cannon::KDsN:::1 archbishop:::::1 chancellor:M::::1 spider::B2ND:crownedrook::1 dragon:D:QN:dragon::1 knight:N:::b1,g1 bishop::::c1,f1 rook::::a1,h1 queen::::d1 king::::e1

Click on the name of a piece to see its move diagram

The autoGate option

I added a new option to the Interactive Diagram, to make it possible to use brouhaha squares also for Musketeer-style gating. This is mainly an AI thing: in the manual use of the diagram it was already possible to drag the pieces that should be gated from the brouhaha square where you put it to the board as a separate move. The design choice of not enforcing any turn order in the diagram was made precisely do allow that kind of double moving. The only thing that changes here by specifying autoGate=1 is that highlighting of the normal moves the piece has from the brouhaha square is suppressed on the extreme ranks.

But when the AI has to think ahead it has of course to know that the pieces are gated as side effect of any move of the piece in front of it. And the AI should not kinck in when the user has moved his back-rank piece before he had time to also perform the accompanied gating. This should now also work.

The Musketeer Chess demo

The diagram above gives a reasonable representation of Musketeer Chess, taking into account that we are not dealing with a program dedicated to a specific variant, but merely with an 'electronic chess board' intended to be a virtual representation of your woodware board at home. That it can indicate the pseudo-legal moves of the pieces you grab is merely an aid to the memory, which in chess variants can be pretty useful.

To use the above diagram as a Musketeer Chess demo, you can drag the selected Musketeer pieces from the piece table to the gating ranks. You would have to do that for both sides; the generic AI only knows how to push chess pieces over a board, and doesn't support any variant-specific stuff like selecting gating squares. After you placed the pieces, you can start the AI and play against it.


Chu Shogi. Historic Japanese favorite, featuring a multi-capturing Lion. (12x12, Cells: 144) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Jun 12, 2020 11:42 AM UTC:

The AI of the diagram now also has a vague notion of the Lion anti-trading rules. It isn't perfect yet, because it does not apply the rule for 'bridge capture' yet; you can just generally forbid capture of protected pieces of a certain type. It also doesn't limit it to distant captures, but I guess that only means it unjustly forbids moves that you would never want to make anyway.


📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Jun 12, 2020 01:28 PM UTC:

That is not enough information to set up the position. Can you post the game that it prints below the diagram, up to the position where it happened?

And did you make sure your browser cache was refreshed, so that you are using the updated diagram script, rather than an old cached one? (BTW, counter-strike is still a problem, because the AI does not take prior moves into account. So it wouldn't know that non-Lion x Lion took place.)


📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Jun 12, 2020 02:21 PM UTC:

Well, for me it doesn't capture the Lion, after these moves. I don't know what browser you are using, but on FireFox I can clear the cache by keeping Shift pressed during the page reload.

The diagram already supports a Betza notation for a Joker (I for Imitator). See the 'Betza sandbox' comment on Betza notation.


Interactive diagrams. Diagrams that interactively show piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Fri, Jun 12, 2020 02:59 PM UTC:

I am not sure what you mean by 'shuffling'. Something like in Chess960? The diagram just sets up the position that you specify. It would be hard for a general diagram to know what kind of shuffling is acceptable. (E.g. must the King stay between the Rooks? What if there even aren't Kings or Rooks? Or when there are multiple ranks of pieces? Or brouhaha squares?) And what should trigger the shuffling? Refreshing the pase, to re-initialize the diagram? Should there be a button for it, and if so, where?

It might be better to just start with the squares that contain shuffled pieces empty, and put all pieces in the 'hand' in the initial position. People can then first set up the shuffle the want by dropping the pieces, and start playing from there.

Of course it would also be possible to just embed a small JavaScript routine in the HTML page that does the shuffling in the way you want it.

BTW, I added a hidden feature to the Diagram. (This was really only for debugging purposed, and I am not sure I am wise to mention it. For people might take it serious, but they will probably discover it anyway.) When you click the 'move' header in the piece table, the column toggles to display the piece values estimated by the AI instead of the moves in Betza notation. Don't believe them; it makes exactly the same errors as most people do when guessing piece values!


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