Rated Comments
I am interested in seing some of the more 'out there' piece ideas you have. In my personal opinion, once you've gone through all the trouble to develop a triangular board, you need to push the envelope on the pieces.
Other than just being chess on a triangular board, this looks perfectly playable! Very nice!
This is probably the best Chess/Shogi/Xiang Qi combination I've seen. Very good.
Average score for sheer originality....no higher due to my doubts of actual playability.
This is crazy. Very interesting ideas hidden here though.
- "May someone make in effort to describe his/her's appeal to this game?"
It's just brilliant! I had an idea once for a piece called "The Lovers". It was basically a figurine of a man and woman holding each other, but which could separate and thus have two pieces distributed about instead.
"Catapults Of Troy" reminds me of this, specifically the Trojan Horse, with its ability to deploy Archers.
Whilst this game is not Classically orientated, there are good things to come from designing pieces such as these, which are two abilities combined as one.
Nice work. ;)
It truly is amazing how many exquisitely different and unique Chess variants have been invented.
I personally always prefer something more closely resembling the Classical concept, for example Modern Chess and so forth, but am astounded by the dedication given by people like yourself to the intricate details of playability, in what would seem an almost bizarre game in comparison.
Well done!
This is an excellent game. I avoided it for a long time because I thought the large amount of power on the board would make it too difficult for me to deal with. It turns out I find it very playable, although it does require me to spend more time thinking before making a move for most of the game. Midgame positions can be exceptionally complex.
The opening starts out feeling nice and slow, as though the first 10 or so moves don’t matter too much. While I think it’s true that there is a very large amount of flexibility to how you can play the opening, those moves are still very important. At some point, typically around move 20, the game breaks open and becomes tactical and violent quickly. You want your pieces well-positioned when that happens. There is some contention for the e4/e9 and h4/h9 squares. All three of the light leapers – Champion, Wizard, and Knight – are good to develop early and all three are natural to develop to those squares, so you must choose which to develop there. I find that typically one of these three piece types doesn’t get developed in the opening before the game gets wild. I think it’s important to get the Vaos developed early. By the endgame, they are the weakest piece, but their low material value and ability to make long-range jumps gives them significant power to harass the heavier pieces as the game progresses. Developing the Vaos generally requires developing the Knights.
I like the promotion rules overall but the 14 extra pieces each player starts with in reserve seem unnecessary. There is tremendous carnage before any pawns are in a position to promote so lack of replacements is not an issue. The extra Queens are the only pieces that have any realistic possibility of being used.
Well-played games are typically nail-biters and the dynamic between the two players can reverse several times before it’s over. Having the momentum is very important – you want to be the one forcing the opponent to react, and the longer you can keep it that way, the more advantage you will accumulate.
My estimage of the piece values:
Piece | Ave. Dir. Attacked | Ave. Safe Checks | Ave. Mobility | Midgame Value | Endgame Value |
Queen | 7.03 | 29.03 | 17.33 | 12.5 | 13.5 |
Marshall | 9.78 | 24.44 | 15.79 | 10 | 11 |
Archbishop | 9.47 | 16.81 | 13.76 | 8.5 | 9 |
Rook | 3.67 | 18.33 | 9.68 | 6.5 | 7.5 |
Champion | 9.78 | 6.11 | 9.78 | 6 | 6 |
Wizard | 8.86 | 5.50 | 8.86 | 6 | 5.5 |
Bishop | 3.36 | 10.69 | 7.65 | 5 | 5.5 |
Cannon | Â | Â | Â | 5 | 2.5 |
Vao | Â | Â | Â | 3.5 | 1.5 |
Knight | 6.11 | 6.11 | 6.11 | 2.5 | 2.5 |
Pawn | 1.68 | 0.00 | 1.68 | 1 | 1.25 |
This is one of my favorite variants on the site! Very well done. I like the concept of the river as a barrier, but you didn't stop with that as a gimmick. You also made the piece types work with the river! There is an archer to shoot over the water, the ram could be too powerful but the river hampers it's deployment, and a catapult to toss pieces....great job.
Now, there are a few things I would do different (imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, I may design a derivative) but there is only one thing I think is not designed very well.
Why do you have 5 ranks on each half of the board? Xiang Qi also has 5, but the pawns start on the fourth rank. Catapults of Troy's pawns start on the second rank, and don't have an initial double (or triple) step. I would venture to say this makes pawn development very very slow.
Which would be fine, except I see absolutely no benefit from it. The river already has a huge damper on pawn development/attacks, so even if you wanted to limit pawn interaction in the game it's already redundant. Not to mention, slowing the game (particularly the opening) down for no actual change doesn't seem like a good idea.
It slows down getting the bridge builder into position, it slows down getting the Trojan Horse into the action...it also makes developing the bishops really awkward....Honestly, it makes everything except the catapult sadly out of position. I'm afraid the opening of Catapults of Troy would devolve into catapulting most of your pieces close to the river just to save 30 turns of development.
Frankly, I think there is so much empty space eliminating only one rank from each side would still play almost the same. Slightly shorter opening, sure, but nothing else.
Again, all this would be OK, except I see no benefit at all. Just an unnecessarily stretched opening.
Am I missing something? Please inform me, if so.
(Maybe you like a long opening! That's OK.)
I would allow pawn double step and eliminate one rank per side, personally. I think that would speed up the opening tremendously and lose nothing--maybe lower the importance of the Catapult a little bit, but at the moment Catapults look too central to moving pieces.
All that being said, this is STILL an excellent game. I can handle an unnecessarily long opening, so long as the rest of it is great! One of the best on the website!
I just stumbled on this page, and it's quite interesting. (Very old, but still good.) I am, however, very surprised to see the Lion listed as the most powerful piece. If I needed a snap decition between Amazon/Lion I would have said Amazon on reflex....very interesting.
The historicity of this variant vastly increases it's importance....it's possible this is the beginning of pawn's double move, and the first appearance of a diagonal slider. Very important.
This has some very interesting ideas, but the end result feels a little much. I'm not sure I completely understand the moving over full squares rule.
I just have to say, this is a clever idea. Very nice.
I rather like the idea. Assuming fairly normal piece moves.
I would expand the piece set to start some fairy pieces on the empty faces, myself.
INTERESTING.
Wow. I like.
Bishop moves are darn tricky. They have an abundance of paths to take, I'm guessing they are valued approxamently the same as a rook.
Also, don't rooks tend to be more dangerous on a circuar board?
Consequently, the queen might be overly powerful.
I honestly think that there could be more peices to play with the different angles.
I think this has a germ of brilliance, but incomplete. This definitly has some unrealized potential.
Very interesting. I like the different moves on each board and how they relate to each other. Nice job!
This is absolutely the best out-there/crazy idea I have ever seen for a chess variant.
I've spent hours lurking on this site and have never seen anything else quite like it.
I have not actually tried it yet, so I only gave it a 'good' rating, but it looks awesome. I have plans to make a physical copy...
Two thumbs up!
I like this cool variant even better than the somewhat similar Pocket Shogi Plus, owing to each side having a Copper General at the outset.
This is something of a ground-breaking variant, when it comes to Shogi-like ones.
An interesting variant, albeit a slightly complex one. The kings' recruiting power is a ground-breaking idea.
An interesting variant that reminds me of Chinese Chess a little bit, in that the pieces are all fairly weak compared to that of orthodox chess. It's also less complicated to understand than at least some of Gary's other variants.
This variant is another nifty-looking one by Gary Gifford, albeit with a certain degree of complexity to the play.
This cool chess variant is at least to some extent ground-breaking. Though I initially had trouble grasping the large number of rules (which almost makes this variant more like a wargame), the effort was worth it now that I have at least some inkling of how the game's strategies might work in practice.
I'm not all that sure I agree with (as I noticed elsewhere) Greg's usual dislike of variants having lots of 'power' (in terms to having several very powerful pieces, on a board of relatively modest size dimensions in particular, I assume), but this variant's very powerful armies on an 8x8 board strikes me as very over-powered, at least at first. Still, if Ralph Betza has given his name to a variant he invented, it suggests the idea may not be so bad at all... It's been played lots on Game Courier, so far, so that alone means its had some pretty good testing.
I'd like to nominate Seirawan Chess for the Popular category (I'm hoping we can squeeze at least this one entry onto the list of Recognized Variants, after something of a long lull).
I think the wiki on this variant gives the idea here and there that it has become rather popular since its invention over 10 years ago. Notably, mentioned are a number of websites devoted to it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seirawan_chess
I find this variant to be worth rating as Excellent, if only since it seems to me to be at least as good as Capablanca Chess, while remaining on an 8x8 board as used for chess.
I've played a few games of this and I think you've hit on a winner. It's a very exciting game. Congratulations!
There were two different pages for this, so I've moved the comments over from the other page and deleted it. We should get a Game Courier Preset page for it published also.
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I don't find any information about Pawn promotion in Wormhole Chess. Do Pawns promote on the last square they can reach, whatever the rank (for example if there are no squares anymore vertically in front of the Pawn, beyond the wormhole, nor diagonally where an opponent's piece could land)? Or do they only on the last rank, meaning that if a Pawn can't reach the 8th rank anymore, because of the disappearing of squares, he can't promote anymore?
This comment gives me the opportunity to rate this game as 'excellent'. Really great concept and gameplay. It would be great to have a larger variant of Wormhole Chess, 10x10 or even 12x12.