[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ][ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ][ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]Rated Comments for a Single ItemLater ⇩Reverse Order⇧ Earlier Shatranj Kamil I. Large shatranj variant with new piece: camel. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2006-05-14 UTCPoor ★The regretted Gollon has made me discover CV long time ago, so I owe his soul a lot of respect. Unfortunately, I discovered his source, Murray, years later and I hate to say that Gollon made a lot of mistakes, and me too on my first book (Guide des échecs exotiques et insolites) because I followed Gollon. Apologies to my French readers. 1) These 2 variants are nowhere called 'Kamil'. 2) Setup 2 is done by al-Masudi who said that it was invented by al-Khalil ibn Ahmad (718-71). The Camels are at the sides of the board but their move was not recorded. So our rule here is a pure speculation. 3) Setup 1 is found in Firdawsi's Shâhnâma. Gollon made a mistake: the Camels are between Faras (Knights) and Fils (Elephants), check Murray, p341. The move that Murray gives p341 is cleary a speculation too as pointed out by Sanvito and Panaino. Firdawsi's text is given on Murray p214. There we learn that the Shutur (Persian for Camel) 'ran through 3 squares', which, yes, means that they moved 2 square (ancient were counting the starting square in), probably jumping (same thing is said of the Elephant), but nowhere it is said that it was horizontally or vertically. I agree that this speculation is believable, but it is good to know that it remains a speculation. If you have more elements in contradiction, please post them. Charles Gilman wrote on 2003-05-26 UTCExcellent ★★★★★As well as its meaning of 'complete' the name also conveys a suggestion in many (most?) languages of 'Chess with Camels', which of course is an accurate description. It could also be called something like 'Punturanga' (feel free to correct my Sanskrit if you know better!), meaning a five-part army of infantry, chariots, cavalry, elephantry, and camelry. 2 comments displayedLater ⇩Reverse Order⇧ EarlierPermalink to the exact comments currently displayed.