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Champagne Chess. Chess on a 12x8 board with ferfils and dragons added.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 11:03 PM UTC:

Hi Greg

I'm not sure of the details, but I seem to remember long ago Fergus instructed me to the effect of trying to keep an index page for a preset fairly clean, such as free of rules descriptions, as he felt such a page was meant to be simply a gateway to the actual preset itself.  Thus, that's why I've tried to do it that way since then.

[edit: P.S.: Fergus wrote on 2016-12-07 EST: "You don't need to explain all the rules on this {index} page {for my old Carrousel Chess preset}. This is just a jumping off page for a Game Courier preset. The appropriate place for the rules is the rules page, which you can link to from here, and the preset itself."]

Before I've almost always first made a rules page for a given game I've invented, with Introduction, Setup, Pieces, Rules, Notes sections given, as is customary for such pages, and people could read these (besides looking at the actual preset). This time I meant to get a whole bunch of games out there without taking much longer than I already had, as a lot of the games were revived ideas of long ago. It also can pay to use a name for a game before someone else might take it, as I discovered recently. I may get around to doing rules pages for some or all of my 9 recently released presets, but it could take a while.


Greg Strong wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 10:06 PM UTC:

For these games, there is a description of the piece movements if you click on the link to open the actual preset.  It would be better, though, if the relevant rules were also posted on the index page.


Compound Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with Sergeant pawns & armies of compound pieces. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 09:37 PM UTC:

How do the pieces move?


Gamma2 Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with Berolina Pawns & special Ship & Archer pieces. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 09:35 PM UTC:

How do the ships and archers move?


Champagne Chess. Chess on a 12x8 board with ferfils and dragons added.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 09:35 PM UTC:

How are the dragons moving?


Waffle Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with waffles added.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 12:51 PM UTC:

@Kevin

And by the way if you like my ideeas and like to improve on them or something I'm sure we can find some Grand Chess or Capablaca chess presets, even with rules enforcement, that can be easilly modified to play these games! I can do it if you wish :)! Or anyone else for that matter :)!


Aurelian Florea wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 12:37 PM UTC:

I thought about this as a simple mutator (as you call it) on your initial idea of adding on a capablanca board minor pieces and as I'm uncomfortable with the modern elephant for being color bound I replaced it with the Spartan lieutenant. The waffle/phoenix and the frog seem like natural additions.

An difficulty I have with these ideas is that the frog's trebuchet jump may be a bit too much :)!

But then something HG once said to me in the context of discussions about apothecary chess 2 (correctly I think) is that you need more strong pieces to make the game a bit faster and more decisive. I'd propose, in order to make the exchanges more interesting to have pieces close to queen value. So I propose for the added major piece besides, the minor ones I've considered above: the Marshall (R+N), the Minister (B+N+W)- there are probably other names for this one- and the unicorn (B+NN)- the strongest of the three. For which is with which I though to pair the game with Spartan Lieutenants with the Marshals (in order to have a diagonal and orthogonal piece), the game with the waffle/phoenix with the Unicorn (as there the unicorn is the only strong piece proposed with no wazir move) and the frog game will have the Minister. But I would not add a new strong piece in the normal setup by expanding the capablanca board or pushing or deleting pawns. But through an alternative piece introduction method. This would be other gating (the piece sits behind a friendly piece and takes it's place when this one got moved), the Seiwaran way, or through bruhaha squares. Out of those here I'd prefer gating as the Seiwaran way leads to sometimes game-breaking tactics and the Bruhaha way is to fixed. Gating would alleviate a bit of the first move advantage as black would be able to create his strategy already knowing where the white gated piece goes.

Next are some diagrams illustrating what I think maybe it's good to be considered:

 

 

Thinking about the initial setups was not trivial and quite fun so I'm glad the best turned to be different. I chose reasonable gating options to be displayed by both players.

And the most important thing, although I think Kevin you are not quite comfortable with this one. But I'm putting it out there for discursion.  I almost always though that practical promotion only to queen is maybe not such a good idea. So I think I/we should consider 7th rank promotion to lesser pieces.  The question here is "to rook or not to rook"!... Well, if we allow promotion to rook than most promotion will be rook as basically you will never promote at 7th rank to non-rook and it really rare to promote to the stronger pieces as an extra rook (almost, you do lose your promoting pawn after all)  usually wins you the game among serious players. The second alternative is to promote to any of the 3 minor pieces but not rook. That is quite good actually as the 3 minor pieces are close in value and there are plenty of opportunities to promote the the slightly weaker ones. But then there will be no promotion to rook, and personally I don't like that just for it and besides now KP vs K is again not necessarily a win as it would be when being able to promote to a rook on the 7th rank. So I had cooked a third longer but I'm thinking better rule.

A player can promote a pawn to a rook on the 7th rank if at least one of the two following cases occurs

1. The next two conditions are both simultaneously true:

  i). This player has already promoted another pawn regardless of to which it had promoted it

  ii). This player has at least double the number of all minor pieces to the number of rooks

2. The player is down to it's last pawn

Kevin besides maybe other concerns I think you are thinking that this rule is to complex for new players. But I don't think this is a big issue as player will come in contact with this rule later anyway, after getting the basic differences. But I do think that it makes the game have more options :), and that tends to be good :)!


💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 06:34 AM UTC:

I've considerably edited my last post in this thread, for any who missed it.


💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Mon, Dec 3, 2018 02:16 AM UTC:

Hi Aurelian

An older 10x8 game I made, Hannibal Chess, makes use of ferfils (i.e. modern elephants) plus the FIDE army, but with the ferfils in different spots in the setup than is the case for waffles in Waffle Chess (I wish to have pawns in a setup all protected, in all my games to date). That's ignoring the fast castling rules I've used for Waffle Chess (or [10x8] WAD Chess) since that piece type makes development otherwise way more awkward than for (e.g.) Hannibal Chess, perhaps. In the Notes for Hannibal Chess' page, I mentioned that lieutenants (i.e. the elephant-like pieces from Spartan Chess) could be used instead of ferfils (it'd be a mutator variant called Lieutenant Chess, in that case). Frog Chess is also an old 10x8 game of mine, but uses frogs instead of ferfils, and with their place in the setup slightly different from Hannibal, Waffle (or WAD) Chess.

Wide Chess is one 12x8 variant of mine (which is also old), with waffles and lieutenants used besides the FIDE army in the setup for it (fast castling rules are used here too, this time since castling would take a lot of moves regardless, on 12x8). In the Notes to that game's page I mentioned that WADs could be used instead of waffles (that mutator variant would be called Wide WAD Chess). I've given some thought to somehow using frogs plus another piece type, with FIDE army, in a 12x8 variant (or mutator of one), but so far I couldn't find a setup I liked, whether or not I used my fast castling rules (as in Wide Chess). For example, I tried using frogs with ferfils plus the FIDE army on 12x8, but found no possible setup to meet all my needs/desires. [edit2: Revisited this 21-Dec-2018, and came up with a variant idea I noted as a mutator in an edit to a Champagne Chess preset Comment I made. I also used frogs plus lieutenants to make a mutator variant idea, given in an edit of mine to a Comment to Parity Chess preset.]

Using frogs plus lieutenants, instead of frogs plus ferfils, did not seem to help, and using frogs plus waffles [edit3: revisited this 21-Dec-2018, and came up with a variant idea I noted as a mutator, in an edit to a Wide Chess rules page Comment I made.], instead of using frogs plus ferfils, may well not help, either, though I could check [edit: I've looked back at my old scribbled notes, and I had considered and rejected this idea, too - however, looking now, using frogs plus WADs(Champions) instead just might prove feasible to some degree, IMO.]. It would possibly be just classed a mutator variant of Wide Chess, though (especially if the non-FIDE pieces occupy the same spots in the setup as for in Wide Chess). That is, perhaps not deserving a page of its own, though a preset could be made and possibly be made official, without editorial objection, assuming the idea can be made to work. As an aside, I'm sure a 12x8 variant with both ferfils and lieutenants (plus FIDE army) could work, but it would be rather bland in my humble opinion since the lieutenant piece type is merely a slightly augmented version of the ferfil type. Hence I tried using ferfils with dragons (plus FIDE army) instead, in my new 12x8 Champagne Chess, which I hope is a more interesting mix of piece types to use together.

P.S.: My intuition about what makes a given CV a mutator of another may not always be agreed to by others, though the concept is hard to define regardless. Here's one attempt, made on this website, which I'm not at all sure covers what I've alluded to in the previous paragraphs:

Mutators

[edit: Here's a diagram of a variant idea (maybe to be called Fairyland Chess, if it pans out after studying it at my leisure). The castling rules would be as in Waffle Chess, and the frogs move like 3-leapers (by rank or file) or like ferz' (1 square diagonally). The idea is to successfully make use of frogs and WADs(Champions) plus FIDE army on 12x8, as alluded to in my earlier edit. I'd tentatively estimate the piece values as P=1; N=3.06(or 3 approx.); F=3.13(or 3.25 approx.); B=3.75; CH=3.86(or 3.75 approx.); R=5.5; Q=R+B+P=10.25 and Ks fighting value=2.67:] [edit3: This setup has at least one possible drawback in that maybe a frog can rush to the k-file on the 4th rank in 2 moves, which might be to some degree annoying.] [edit4: Seems not a problem at all for Black at move 1, as there's more than one way to deal with it fairly cleanly.] [edit5: this first setup idea may be fatally flawed after all, as first of all castling may be unsafe/awkward to arrange if e.g. White moves frog-pawns one cell forward each, making it tough to soon move either champion in a safe way (from harrassment by B[s] and/or a rook's pawn), and, also due to the setup, charging either rook's pawn may make well castling hazardous/awkward to some extent in general even if a champion is not moved as preparation first (e.g. a champion may be left out of active play for ages).]

[edit2: Here's a backup setup for this, which I currently dislike more than the original setup, e.g. due to the Bs positions, i.e. not allowing 'fianchetto' deployment of them, and hitting pawns in front of champions in the setup, A straight leap of a frog could be annoying as moving a Black pawn one cell could block a N from a nice developing square, and otherwise developing a kingside frog by a ferz-move might be awkward; all this seems to make this backup setup fatally flawed; thus this whole variant idea may need to be rejected.][edit6: I thought of an apparently better setup than the one below or above, but it's clearly now a mutator variant of my Parity Chess variant; see the Comments thread for the Parity Chess preset for details:]


Aurelian Florea wrote on Sun, Dec 2, 2018 08:28 PM UTC:

Hi Kevin!

This game would also work with spartan elephants I think. Isn't it?

You have made a game with frog + spartan elephants, but would they just work in this one replacing each the waffle/phoenix? 3 games. And if you want 12x8 also you may choose 3 groups of 2 :)!


💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 11:03 PM UTC:

I've edited my original comment on this preset, by deleting reference to a Waffle plus K  being able to mate a lone K. I had the Waffle mixed up with the WD piece type (not included in this particular variant), which I actually do know has mating potential, from some of H.G.'s older comments.


💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 09:00 PM UTC:

Hi Greg

I originally wanted to use 'Phoenix Chess', but meanwhile someone used that name for a 2018 preset submission of theirs (which is still unapproved - though I checked their publicly available settings files link, and saw that that game in no way resembles my own). - so I assumed the Database would not allow me to use that name myself. After that, I felt Waffle Chess was the next most attractive choice of name, which I decided to use.


Greg Strong wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 08:14 PM UTC:

Interesting.  I will ceratinly try this out but I wish you had not used the name Waffle.  I know that's Betza's name but it is a really, really bad name for chess piece.  This piece has been used for about 400 years in Chu Shogi under the name Phoenix (a much better name.)


MP3d-chess-war[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 05:46 AM UTC:

This variant was inspired by an image of a four level 3D chess set from the 1960s Batman TV series episode 'The purr-fect crime', with Bruce Wayne (Adam West) thinking over his next move (vs. Dick Grayson [Burt Ward]). The rules they were playing by were not revealed in the show, and I decided to invent a game based on the image of the 3D set in the scene, using my own ideas for its rules. Note that White moves first on just 2 of the four levels.


Gamma2 Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with Berolina Pawns & special Ship & Archer pieces. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 04:47 AM UTC:

For this game's 10x8 board I tentatively put X(Berolina Pawn)=1.05(or 1 approx.); N=3.38(or 3.25 approx.); B=3.75; R=5.5; SH(Ship)=6.2625(or 6.25 approx.); AR(Archer)=5.45(or 5.5 approx.); Q=R+B+P=10.25 and K's fighting value=3.2. The variant's name was inspired by it being a second attempt at a game with the special Ship and Archer piece types, which have powers including ones perhaps somewhat akin to the discharge of Gamma rays, and the variant's name was also inspired by there being 2 such pieces in total per side in the setup. Note that all the Berolina Pawns are protected in the setup.


Waffle Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with waffles added.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 04:27 AM UTC:

For this game's 10x8 board I tentatively put P=1; EW=2.695(or 2.75 approx.); N=3.38(or 3.25 approx.); B=3.75; R=5.5; Q=R+B+P=10.25 and K's fighting value=3.2. This variant's design was inspired by my desire to use a symmetrically moving piece type along with a FIDE army, and Dr. H.G. Muller suggested that the Waffle(aka Phoenix) might be an interesting choice, if feasible. Fast castling rules are used in this variant to try to facilitate king safety and development. Note that all the pawns are protected in the setup.


WAD Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with WADs (Champions) added. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 04:22 AM UTC:

For this game's 10x8 board I tentatively put P=1; N=3.38(or 3.25 approx.); B=3.75; WAD(or Champion)=4.29(or 4.25 approx.); R=5.5; Q=R+B+P=10.25 and K's fighting value=3.2. Note that a WAD plus a K can force mate vs. lone K (on 10x8) in well under 50 moves. This variant's design was inspired by my desire to use a symmetrically moving piece type along with a FIDE army, and the fact that a WAD plus K can deliver mate vs. lone K reasonably quickly (on 10x8) gave using the WAD piece type a bonus (and this piece's mating potential also inspired my later inventing certain 10x10, 12x8 and 12x10 variants that included the type, for the sake of using it on various board sizes of varying degrees of popularity). Fast castling rules are used in this variant to try to facilitate king safety and development. Note that all the pawns are protected in the setup.


Parity Chess. Chess on a 12x8 board with Champions and FADs added.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 04:14 AM UTC:

I'd estimate the values for this 12x8 game as: P=1; N=3.06(or 3 approx.); B=3.75; FAD=CH=3.86(or 3.75 approx.); R=5.5; Q=R+B+P=10.25; K's fighting value=2.67. The variant's name and design was inspired by my thought that two thirds of the pieces (not counting pawns) seemed relatively close in value to me. Note that a Champion plus a K can force mate vs. lone K (on 12x8) in 37 moves maximum - Dr. H.G. Muller, citing endgame tables, which was another inspiration for this variant's design. Fast castling rules are used in this variant to try to facilitate king safety and development. Note that all the pawns are protected in the setup.

[edit: An idea of mine for a mutator variant of Parity Chess some may wish to try (which would be called Fairyland Chess) would be to just replace all the FAD pieces in the setup with Frogs. A frog can move like threeleaper (leap 3 cells by rank or file) or it can move like a ferz (i.e. one cell diagonally). On a 12x8 board as in this game, I'd tentatively estimate a frog's value to be 3.33(or 3.25 approx.). See my Waffle Chess invention's PBM (preset page) Comment thread for more (purely academic/moot) details on this mutator idea.]

[edit2: An idea of mine for a mutator variant of Fairyland Chess some may wish to try (which would be called Wide Lieutenant Chess) would be to just replace all the CH pieces in the setup of Fairyland Chess with Lieutenants (known piece type from Spartan Chess). Lieutenants leap 1 or 2 cells diagonally, or they can (but without making a capturing move) step 1 cell in either direction on their rank. On 12x8 I'd tentatively estimate a lieutenant's value to be 2.56(or 2.5 approx.).]

[edit3: Here's a CV idea of mine that could be called Kirin-Spiel, which I'll study at leisure (it has same fast castling and pawn rules as my Wide Chess):]

[edit4: Here's a CV idea of mine that could be called Lancer-Spiel, which I'll study at leisure (it has same fast castling and pawn rules as my Wide Chess):]

[edit5: Here's a CV idea of mine that could be called Horse-Wazir-Spiel, which I'll study at leisure (it has same fast castling and pawn rules as my Wide Chess):][edit6: I'm not liking these 3 diagrammed CV ideas so much just now - perhaps these are all worse versions of {especially an Accelerated form of} Courier-Spiel:]

[edit7" Here's a CV idea of mine that could be called Warmachinewazir-Spiel, which I'll study at leisure (it has same fast castling and pawn rules as my Wide Chess) - an alternate variant idea is to replace the DWs with Waffles (WAs) and call it Waffle-Spiel:


Wide SOHO Chess. Chess on a 12x10 board with Archbishops, Marshalls, Champions, FADs, Wizards & Cannons.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 04:09 AM UTC:

I'd estimate the values for this 12x10 game (in the endgame at least) as: P=1; C=2.75; N=2.83(or 2.75 approx.); FAD=CH=3.48(or 3.5 approx.); WZ=3.56(or 3.5 approx.); B=3.75; R=5.5; A=B+N+P=7.58(or 7.5 approx.); M=R+N+P=9.33(or 9.25 approx.); Q=R+B+P=10.25; K's fighting value=2.13(or 2.1 approx.). The variant's name and design was inspired by Shako, Omega Chess, Hannibal Chess and Opulent Chess, to varying degrees. The game also has a resemblance to TenCubed Chess IMHO, in hindsight. Note that a Champion plus a K can force mate vs. lone K (on 12x10) in 47 moves maximum - Dr. H.G. Muller, citing endgame tables, which was another inspiration for this variant's design. Also note that all the pawns are protected in the setup.


SOHO Chess. Chess on a 10x10 board with Champions, FADs, Wizards & Cannons.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 04:03 AM UTC:

I'd estimate the piece vales for this 10x10 game (in the endgame at least) as: P=1; C=2.75; N=3; B=3.5; FAD=CH=WZ=3.75; R=5.5; Q=R+B+P=10; K's fighting value=2.5 approx. The variant's name comes from its designing being influenced by Shako, Omega Chess, Hannibal Chess and Opulent Chess, to varying degrees. The game also has a resemblance to TenCubed Chess IMHO, in hindsight. Note that a Champion plus a K can force mate vs. lone K (on 10x10) in 39 moves maximum - Dr. H.G. Muller, citing endgame tables, which was another inspiration for this variant's design. Also note that all the pawns are protected in the setup.


Champagne Chess. Chess on a 12x8 board with ferfils and dragons added.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 03:47 AM UTC:

I'd tentatively estimate the piece values (on the game's 12x8 board) as follows: P=1; EF=2.34(or 2.25 approx.); N=3.06(or 3 approx.); B=3.75; D=4.58(or 4.5 approx.); R=5.5; Q=R+B+P=10.25; Ks fighting value=2.67. I wanted a name for this variant that suggested it was played on a wide board, but the word champaign was already taken elsewhere on the web as part of a chess tournament name, so I altered the spelling of it to be as in Old French, so that the game is to be called Champagne Chess, which seemed cool to me somehow. Fast castling rules are used in this variant to try to facilitate king safety and development. Note that all the pawns are protected in the setup.

[edit: Note that a mutator variant idea of mine some may wish to try (Wide Hannibal Chess) would be Champagne Chess played with Frogs instead of dragons used in the setup. Frogs move like threeleapers (leap 3 cells by rank or by file) or move like ferz' (step 1 cell diagonally). On 12x8 I'd put a frog worth 3.33(or 3.25 approx.).]

[edit2: An idea of mine for another mutator variant of Champagne Chess some may wish to try (which would be called Champagne Chess Plus) would be to just replace all the ferfil (elephant) pieces in the setup of Champagne Chess with Lieutenants (known piece type from Spartan Chess). Lieutenants leap 1 or 2 cells diagonally, or they can (but without making a capturing move) step 1 cell in either direction on their rank. On 12x8 I'd tentatively estimate a lieutenant's value to be 2.56(or 2.5 approx.).]

[edit3: An idea of mine for another mutator variant of Champagne Chess some may wish to try (which would be called Wide Waffle Chess) would be to just replace all the ferfil (elephant) pieces in the setup of Champagne Chess with Waffles. Waffles can leap 2 cells diagonally, or they can step 1 cell by rank or by file. On 12x8 I'd tentatively estimate a waffle's value to be 2.34(or 2.25 approx.).]

[edit4: An idea of mine for another mutator variant of Champagne Chess some may wish to try (which would be called Wide Dragon Chess) would be to just replace all the ferfil (elephant) pieces in the setup of Champagne Chess with Champions (also known as WADs). Champions can leap 2 cells diagonally or by rank or by file, or they can step 1 cell by rank or by file. On 12x8 I'd tentatively estimate a champion's value to be 3.86(or 3.75 approx.).]


Compound Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with Sergeant pawns & armies of compound pieces. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 03:40 AM UTC:

My tentative piece value estimates (for on this game's 10x8 board) would be: S=1.54(or 1.5 approx.); NP=5.07(or 5 approx.); BD=5.35(or 5.25 approx.); RA=7.1(or 7 approx.); NGU=7.58(or 7.5 approx.); QAD=12.45(or 12.5 approx.) and Ks fighting value=3.2. Note that e.g. just 3 sergeant pawns are worth about a NP or BD, which is why sergeants are to go with the chosen armies, i.e. to make trading a low number of them for a piece feasible at times, sort of as in chess. Also, all the pieces and pawns in the setup are arguably compound pieces (even a K, which can move like a ferz or wazir), which explains the name of this variant. Note that all the sergeants are protected in the setup.


Xiangqi: Chinese Chess. Links and rules for Chinese Chess (Xiangqi). (9x10, Cells: 90) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Kevin Pacey wrote on Sat, Dec 1, 2018 01:09 AM UTC:

In one game of Chinese Chess I recently finished, afterwards I thought I might have defended better if a certain 3-fold repetition of position was allowed by the rules (and thus considered a draw), if my opponent didn't avoid it, in one particular sequence of moves I'd thought of. Srictly speaking there was no chasing (or checking) involved, but nor was the repetition voluntary on the part of the defender (me) if I was to avoid losing quickly.

The sequence I wrote of can be descibed as: 1) I move a minister (elephant) away from my palace's central line, and thus the opponent's cannon (in his own camp, on the central line) is no longer attacking any points in my palace. To fight this defence, 2) he puts a minister of his own on the central line in front of his cannon, each piece in his own palace, with the result that his cannon is attacking all the points on the central line in front of his own minister, including all those in my palace. To defend against this, 3) I would move my minister back to where it was, on my palace's central line, at which point his cannon no longer attacks the points on the central line behind my minister (in my palace) since my minister and his both occupy the middle line, in front of his cannon. To fight this defence, 4) he moves his minister away from in front of his cannon, and once again his cannon attacks the points behind my minister on the central line (in my palace). At this point a repetition may have already occured once, depending where his minister went to, but if things keep proceeding in this fashion then a 3-fold repetition would eventually occur.

It's my guess, based on what you've written H.G., that this sort of sequence would be (by Asian rules) ruled a draw, though once again the rules used for the Game Courier preset I was using state simply that 'repetition is to be avoided'.


Pocket Mutation Chess. Take one of your pieces off the board, maybe change it, keep it in reserve, and drop it on the board later. (8x8, Cells: 64) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Greg Strong wrote on Fri, Nov 30, 2018 01:42 AM UTC:

It is a great game.

To the extent it has a "problem" (which is debatable), the problem isn't knightrider's the ability to reach the back row and promote.  It is the ability of black to immediately pocket a knightrider and immediately threaten white with multiple back-row forks.  The opening array is well protected in normal chess because chess doesn't have knightriders, but it is very vulnerable to them.  White can protect himself but must do so immediately and correctly, which is annoying.  That said, I think immediately pocketing a knightrider is a bad move.  If white does play it correctly, he's in a stronger position.  And a knightrider is worth at least a tiny bit less than a rook whereas the other class 3 piece, the super bishop, is slight stronger than a rook.  If you're pocketing a rook into a knightrider in the opening you are basically gambling that your opponent messes up and preparing to take advantage of it.  But you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in terms of development if he doesn't.

The only thing I find strange about the game is the fact that castling is disallowed.  That just feels odd.


Sirlin's Chess. Alternative presentation of "Chess 2 - The Sequel". (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Anthony Viens wrote on Thu, Nov 29, 2018 06:00 AM UTC:

H. G. Muller, I share your dislike of the dueling mechanic and agree it does not feel 'chesslike'.
However, it is not chance.  It is very different skill, requiring reading the board, relative importance of keeping the piece vs stones, and your opponent.  You cannot duel randomly and be effective, because this 'prisoner's dilemma' has an end....you run out of stones and your opponent has a huge advantage.

You may not be aware that Chess2 was played very extensively on Steam, which tracks all games.  Quite a few players racked up litarally thousands of hours playing.  Chess2 probably ranks very high on the list of Chess Variants that have actually been played--and not a single decent player approached the dueling as anything other than an important calculation to make.  You could duel randomly, of course, but experience shows that is not the best way.
(Chess2 on Steam is pretty much dead now, no one is ever on and the computer is quite weak.  But it had quite a few players for a while there.)

I do agree that it pushes this variant farther away from chess than usual--much further away than I like.  But dueling doesn't make it a game of chance.


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