The Chess Variant Pages




[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ]
[ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ]
[ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]

Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

Later Reverse Order Earlier
Tree garden chess. Large chess variant on 10 by 10 board with 4 by 4 area missing from the middle. (10x10, Cells: 84) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
William Overington wrote on 2003-10-19 UTC
As this game was played by various people during the judging of the 84
spaces contest, and possibly in other circumstances as well, does anyone
have any recorded games which could either be posted or sent to me by
email please as I would be interested to study how people played the game
and to have the information as a record of a game which I invented being
played.
 
William Overington
 
19 October 2003
 
[email protected]

Charles Gilman wrote on 2003-06-28 UTC
Here's another idea: George III's Tree Garden Chess. When a King moves onto a square bordering the trees, he cannot leave that square in the next move because he is hugging a tree!

Charles Gilman wrote on 2003-05-31 UTC
A recent astronomical discovery inspired an idea for a further variant of this. The discovery was announced by Bonnard Teegarden, so how about a Tee Garden Chess? As here, the board is 10x10-4x4, but with the middle interpreted as a lake as in Seenschach. The squares orthogonally adjoining the lake have tees from which pieces can hit golf balls orthogonally across the lake. To stop pieces by the lake becoming too powerful placing a ball should count as one move and hitting it as another. If there are pieces beyond the lake the one nearest the player is removed. A Pawn can be promoted by either reaching, or hitting a ball to, its promotion rank (whether or not an enemy piece is there). This makes all files suitable for Pawns (and some Pawn treks potentially quite short!), so I would suggest Carrera's array.

William Overington wrote on 2003-05-23 UTC
The Quest text font, as of the 1.04 version available from
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/font7007.htm since earlier this
afternoon, now has chess sorts for all of the characters needed to set
diagrams for Tree Garden Chess as well as for Herb Garden Chess and
Carrera's Chess.

The font is Unicode compatible and has the chess sorts at the following
code points.
 
U+E58A, decimal 58762, WHITE CHESS MARQUESS UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E58B, decimal 58763, BLACK CHESS MARQUESS UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E58C, decimal 58764, WHITE CHESS MARQUESS UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E58D, decimal 58765, BLACK CHESS MARQUESS UPON A BLACK SQUARE
 
U+E592, decimal 58770, WHITE CHESS EARL UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E593, decimal 58771, BLACK CHESS EARL UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E594, decimal 58772, WHITE CHESS EARL UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E595, decimal 58773, BLACK CHESS EARL UPON A BLACK SQUARE
 
U+E59A, decimal 58778, WHITE CHESS VISCOUNT UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E59B, decimal 58779, BLACK CHESS VISCOUNT UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E59C, decimal 58780, WHITE CHESS VISCOUNT UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E59D, decimal 58781, BLACK CHESS VISCOUNT UPON A BLACK SQUARE
 
U+E5A2, decimal 58786, WHITE CHESS CARRERA CHAMPION UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5A3, decimal 58787, BLACK CHESS CARRERA CHAMPION UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5A4, decimal 58788, WHITE CHESS CARRERA CHAMPION UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5A5, decimal 58789, BLACK CHESS CARRERA CHAMPION UPON A BLACK SQUARE
 
U+E5AA, decimal 58794, WHITE CHESS CARRERA CENTAUR UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5AB, decimal 58795, BLACK CHESS CARRERA CENTAUR UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5AC, decimal 58796, WHITE CHESS CARRERA CENTAUR UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5AD, decimal 58797, BLACK CHESS CARRERA CENTAUR UPON A BLACK SQUARE
 
U+E5C1, decimal 58817, WHITE CHESS KING UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5C2, decimal 58818, WHITE CHESS QUEEN UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5C3, decimal 58819, WHITE CHESS ROOK UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5C4, decimal 58820, WHITE CHESS BISHOP UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5C5, decimal 58821, WHITE CHESS KNIGHT UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5C6, decimal 58822, WHITE CHESS PAWN UPON A WHITE SQUARE
 
U+E5D1, decimal 58833, BLACK CHESS KING UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5D2, decimal 58834, BLACK CHESS QUEEN UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5D3, decimal 58835, BLACK CHESS ROOK UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5D4, decimal 58836, BLACK CHESS BISHOP UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5D5, decimal 58837, BLACK CHESS KNIGHT UPON A WHITE SQUARE
U+E5D6, decimal 58838, BLACK CHESS PAWN UPON A WHITE SQUARE
 
U+E5E1, decimal 58849, WHITE CHESS KING UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5E2, decimal 58850, WHITE CHESS QUEEN UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5E3, decimal 58851, WHITE CHESS ROOK UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5E4, decimal 58852, WHITE CHESS BISHOP UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5E5, decimal 58853, WHITE CHESS KNIGHT UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5E6, decimal 58854, WHITE CHESS PAWN UPON A BLACK SQUARE 
 
U+E5F1, decimal 58865, BLACK CHESS KING UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5F2, decimal 58866, BLACK CHESS QUEEN UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5F3, decimal 58867, BLACK CHESS ROOK UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5F4, decimal 58868, BLACK CHESS BISHOP UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5F5, decimal 58869, BLACK CHESS KNIGHT UPON A BLACK SQUARE
U+E5F6, decimal 58870, BLACK CHESS PAWN UPON A BLACK SQUARE 
 
U+E5C0, decimal 58816, CHESS EMPTY WHITE SQUARE 
U+E5E0, decimal 58848, CHESS EMPTY BLACK SQUARE 
U+E5D0, decimal 58832, CHESS BLANK SPACE SQUARE 
U+E5F0, decimal 58864, CHESS ORNATE MOTIF SQUARE 
 
The following are for referring to the pieces in text.
 
U+2654, decimal 9812, WHITE CHESS KING 
U+2655, decimal 9813, WHITE CHESS QUEEN 
U+2656, decimal 9814, WHITE CHESS ROOK 
U+2657, decimal 9815, WHITE CHESS BISHOP 
U+2658, decimal 9816, WHITE CHESS KNIGHT 
U+2659, decimal 9817, WHITE CHESS PAWN 
U+265A, decimal 9818, BLACK CHESS KING 
U+265B, decimal 9819, BLACK CHESS QUEEN 
U+265C, decimal 9820, BLACK CHESS ROOK 
U+265D, decimal 9821, BLACK CHESS BISHOP 
U+265E, decimal 9822, BLACK CHESS KNIGHT 
U+265F, decimal 9823, BLACK CHESS PAWN 
 
U+E588, decimal 58760, WHITE CHESS MARQUESS
U+E588, decimal 58761, BLACK CHESS MARQUESS
 
U+E590, decimal 58768, WHITE CHESS EARL
U+E591, decimal 58769, BLACK CHESS EARL
 
U+E598, decimal 58776, WHITE CHESS VISCOUNT
U+E599, decimal 58777, BLACK CHESS VISCOUNT
 
U+E5A0, decimal 58784, WHITE CHESS CARRERA CHAMPION
U+E5A1, decimal 58785, BLACK CHESS CARRERA CHAMPION
 
U+E5A8, decimal 58792, WHITE CHESS CARRERA CENTAUR
U+E5A9, decimal 58793, BLACK CHESS CARRERA CENTAUR
 
The following are for the edges of the board, if desired.
 
U+E5B0, decimal 58800, CHESS BOARD UPPER LEFT CORNER
U+E5B1, decimal 58801, CHESS BOARD UPPER RIGHT CORNER
U+E5B2, decimal 58802, CHESS BOARD LOWER LEFT CORNER
U+E5B3, decimal 58803, CHESS BOARD LOWER RIGHT CORNER
U+E5B4, decimal 58804, CHESS BOARD UPPER EDGE SQUARE
U+E5B5, decimal 58805, CHESS BOARD LEFT EDGE SQUARE
U+E5B6, decimal 58806, CHESS BOARD RIGHT EDGE SQUARE
U+E5B7, decimal 58807, CHESS BOARD LOWER EDGE SQUARE

Charles Gilman wrote on 2003-05-05 UTC
I share the anonymous contributor's reservations on the uncoventional
piece names. Longer leaps make for both weaker and less Kingly pieces, so
giving them names from the nobility - higher ranks than Knight - seems
very odd. In general well-established names are better unless, as in the
case of Dragonking and Dragonhorse, they are positively misleading. Names
should not be taken too literally, or you could argue that Rooks should be
able to fly over the trees in the middle!

David Short wrote on 2002-12-11 UTCGood ★★★★
Here is another game I would rate as 'good' I don't give any style points for coming up with new pieces, these have all been used before. I am concerned that the mobility of the pieces will be restricted by the 4 by 4 gap in the middle of the board. This game is not the only game to use the idea of a 10 by 10 board with the middle 16 square field a gap which cannot be used to hold pieces, sometimes can be jumped by pieces but in this game cannot be jumped. Still, any game which I don't find overly confusing about how to play it I have to at least grade as 'good' <p>

Anonymous wrote on 2002-11-07 UTCGood ★★★★
Thanks for answering my questions. I now get a better feeling
for the tree garden atmosphere. The variant with marquesses looks
interesting since the marquesses, alltho weak, can shift quickly
from one part of the garden to the other.

--JKn

William Overington wrote on 2002-10-31 UTC
> Another comment is on the naming of the two additional leapers:
The earl is well-known as camel -- and that name has old historic
roots even before Carrera. The viscount is known as zebra usually.

> What's your motive to use other names?

Well, I was wanting to have a game which had the look and feel of being
played in a paved tree garden of a castle or a country estate and so I had
the idea of having different types of courtly persons as the names of the
pieces.

Also, I did not like the idea of designing a game involving animals
fighting and being attacked, so I assigned the names earl and viscount to
the pieces, thus, as the saying goes, painting two birds on one canvas.

I am now pleased to introduce a variant of Tree garden chess, named 'Tree
garden chess, the game of the marquesses'.

In this variant, there are four marquesses added to each side.

The marquess is a 4,2 jumping piece.

The game starts with white also having a marquess, M, at each of the
squares e2, e3, f2, f3 and with black also having a marquess, m, at each
of the squares e8, e9, f8, f9. 

In this variant, pawn promotion is to queen, champion, centaur, marquess,
earl or viscount at the choice of the player.

William Overington wrote on 2002-10-31 UTC
> I wonder about the pawn's promotion choices: Is it a designed
feature that they cannot promote to rook or knight? 

Yes.  Pawns may not promote to bishop either.

> What lies behind this design decision?
 
I quote from the page about Carrera's Chess.

quote

The precise pawn promotion rules are unknown; it probably is best to play
that a pawn may be promoted to queen, champion, or centaur to the choice
of the owning player; or alternatingly only promote pawns to queens.
(Minor promotion was probably unknown to Carrera.)

end quote

I followed this guidance, deciding to allow promotion to other than just a
queen and deciding to add the earl and viscount to the pawn promotion
possibilities in this game so as to have the possibility of pawn promotion
to the unusual pieces.

> Or is it just a slip in the writing?

No, a quite deliberate extrapolation from the page about Carrera's Chess.

Anonymous wrote on 2002-10-31 UTC
Another comment is on the naming of the two additional leapers:
The earl is well-known as camel -- and that name has old historic
roots even before Carrera. The viscount is known as zebra usually.

What's your motive to use other names?

--JKn

Anonymous wrote on 2002-10-31 UTC
I wonder about the pawn's promotion choices: Is it a designed
feature that they cannot promote to rook or knight? What lies
behind this design decision? Or is it just a slip in the writing?

--JKn

William Overington wrote on 2002-10-22 UTC
I notice a recent addition of a comment to this page that

The above was edited/posted ....

Could you please clarify this in that I sent in a text file in accordance
with the rules of the 84 Spaces Contest and that the colourful web page
diagram was added by a member of the editorial team and a web page
marshalled by a member of the editorial team yet that my original text has
not been altered at all and is fully my own written work exactly as
entered for the 84 Spaces Contest.

Mark Thompson wrote on 2002-10-01 UTC
I'm very glad to hear that! As you see, the ZRF is now finished, sent, and posted.

William Overington wrote on 2002-09-29 UTC
>> My intention was that castling, championing and centauring would
be as near as possible in meaning to castling in ordinary chess...

> The hardest thing about coding the rules for castling etc. in
Zillions is the stipulation not found in ordinary chess, 'that
the king has not been checked at any previous time in that game.'

Well, it was only after reading the recent Rules of Chess: Castling FAQ
document that I realized that 'provided that the king has not been
checked at any previous time in that game' is not how ordinary chess
works.

http://www.chessvariants.com/d.chess/castlefaq.html

I thought about changing the rules of Tree garden chess to suit this but
did not do so as you were already preparing a Zillions of Games
implementation.  However, I am pleased now to change the rules of Tree
garden chess so that castling, championing and centauring is not stopped
if the king has previously been checked as long as the king has not been
moved, thereby making the rules of Tree garden chess as much like those
of ordinary chess as possible.

I am also similarly changing the rules for Herb garden chess so as to be
the same as for Tree garden chess in relation to castling, championing
and centauring, except as to that the two games have a different number
of champions and centaurs.

So, delete the following from the rules.

Each side may only use castling, championing or centauring once in any
one game and provided that the king has not been checked at any previous
time in that game and provided that both the king and the participating
piece have not moved previously during the game.  Castling, championing
and centauring may only take place if the king is not in check at the
start of the process, does not pass across a square which is under attack
and does not end upon a square which is under attack.

Add the following to the rules in the place from where the above was
deleted.

Each side may only use castling, championing or centauring once in any
one game and provided that both the king and the participating piece
have not moved previously during the game.  Castling, championing and
centauring may only take place if the king is not in check at the start
of the process, does not pass across a square which is under attack and
does not end upon a square which is under attack.  If a king has been
previously checked in a game, the fact of that king having been
previously checked in the game does not prevent castling, championing
or centauring taking place.

Thank you for pointing this out.

Mark Thompson wrote on 2002-09-28 UTC
> My intention was that castling, championing and centauring would be as
near as possible in meaning to castling in ordinary chess...

The hardest thing about coding the rules for castling etc. in Zillions is
the stipulation not found in ordinary chess, 'that the king has not been
checked at any previous time in that game.'

William Overington wrote on 2002-09-25 UTC
> Question on castling (and championing and centauring): You can only
castle if your 'king has not been checked at any previous time in that
game' -- by 'previous' do you mean to exclude the current time? That is,
are you allowed to castle while in check in this game?

My intention was that castling, championing and centauring would be as
near as possible in meaning to castling in ordinary chess, with due
allowance for the different size of board, and, for championing and
centauring, also with due allowance for the different pieces.

So, although I did not state it explicitly, my intention was that
castling, championing and centauring could not take place if the king is
in check.

> There is nothing in the rules prohibiting moving the king across an
attacked square while castling, so I assume that's legal here.

Well, it is true that there is nothing in the rules as published, yet my
intention was that castling, championing and centauring would be as near
as possible to castling in ordinary chess, so, from that standpoint, the
king could not move across an attacked square and could not end up upon an
attacked square.

I accept that my rules were not clear on this and, indeed, that they were
capable of giving a wrong indication.

However, I now update the rules to specify the above.

Please update the following statement.

Each side may only use castling, championing or centauring once in any one
game and provided that the king has not been checked at any previous time
in that game and provided that both the king and the participating piece
have not moved previously during the game.

So as to become as follows.

Each side may only use castling, championing or centauring once in any one
game and provided that the king has not been checked at any previous time
in that game and provided that both the king and the participating piece
have not moved previously during the game.  Castling, championing and
centauring may only take place if the king is not in check at the start of
the process, does not pass across a square which is under attack and does
not end upon a square which is under attack.

Mark Thompson wrote on 2002-09-25 UTC
Question on castling (and championing and centauring): You can only castle
if your 'king has not been checked at any previous time in that game' --
by 'previous' do you mean to exclude the current time? That is, are you
allowed to castle while in check in this game?

There is nothing in the rules prohibiting moving the king across an
attacked square while castling, so I assume that's legal here.

William Overington wrote on 2002-09-24 UTC
Thank you for your response.

I do not have the Zillions of Games system.

However, if you wish to send the ZRF file which you have written to the
organizers of the competition and they are happy that it implements the
game and are willing to post it in the www.chessvariants.com web site, I
am happy that your implementation be posted in the www.chessvariants.com
web site.

Mark Thompson wrote on 2002-09-24 UTC
I've been working on a ZRF for Tree garden chess, and I think I have everything working except the castling / championing / centauring. William, do you have Zillions of Games? If so, when I finish it I'll send it to you if you like, and if you approve of it you or I could send it in to be posted.

19 comments displayed

Later Reverse Order Earlier

Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.