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This item is a game information page
It belongs to categories: Orthodox chess, 
It was last modified on: 2003-08-17
 By Jared B. McComb. Ryu Shogi. Large modern shogi variant. (7x12, Cells: 84) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jared McComb wrote on 2005-06-07 UTC
Thanks for the offer!  I'll email you ASAP.

No, I don't have the Yonin page up -- in honesty, I haven't even started
it yet.  I may upload a quickie version using the new form, but don't
expect it to be all that great.  (It'll be an English resource, though,
which is what matters, and besides, I can edit it later!)

Shumby wrote on 2005-06-07 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
I like the game! Looks really fun. I'm gonna have to make it myself to try it out. I'd be happy to help with the Kanji, just email me at [email protected] <p>Do you have that Yonin Shogi site up yet? I cant find any info on that game at all...

Jared McComb wrote on 2004-11-10 UTC
As stated directly in the moves section: 'As a general rule, the promoted forms of pieces retain the movement powers of their third-zone unpromoted counterparts.' In other words, promotion does not change the third-zone move so much as it changes the domain of the move by extending it back to the first two zones. This also happens to apply to Dai-Ryu.

Peter Boddy wrote on 2004-11-10 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
This might seem like a silly question, but where do I find the moves for the dragons?

Jared McComb wrote on 2003-12-03 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
It would be really nice if this game could be linked to on the Oriental
variants list.  Could someone with mysterious editing powers do that for
me, please?  Also, I've been focusing on school and other variants
lately, so Dai-Ryu is currently on the back burner.  (I'm currently
working on 44SC entries, a page for Yonin Shogi (which has precious few
English resources available for it and which really ought to be a
recognized variant), a page for a game which I compiled ages ago called
Grand Shakomega, and a variant using Icehouse pieces which is based
loosely on Yonin.)

Thanks all,

--Jared

EDIT:  Whoops, I forgot to mention something!  I'm looking for someone who
can provide me with traditional-style Kanji for the pieces of Ryu Shogi 
(and some pieces which will debut in Dai-Ryu).  Anyone who can help, post 
here, please (don't email!).

Jared McComb wrote on 2003-08-11 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
I've submitted the modifications, but I haven't got a reply from Mr. Aronson yet. Hopefully they'll be up by next week or so.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on 2003-08-08 UTC
Jared, Michael: See the comment in 'Omnigon Photos' (??). It was an error!.

Michael Nelson wrote on 2003-08-06 UTC
Actually, the change to rule 1 is the one I feel least strongly about--you
make a good case and your way is simpler.

My contribution is not great enough to have a variant named for me--I'd
be comfortable with a thank you on the game page, if you insist.

On the no checkmate by Pawn drops, you may well be right also -- but this
may be less necessary with no drops in zone 4.

Personally, the one Shogi rule I have never liked or understood is why it
is legal to check the King with a Pawn drop, but not to mate. To me,
prohibiting both or neither would seem more logical.

Jared McComb wrote on 2003-08-05 UTCGood ★★★★
I know Rules 2 and 6 are going, and Rule 4 modified to match.  Rule 7 looks
like it will be edited to say that a player with a bare king has the
option of forfeit at any time.  The Pawn-drop restriction will also go,
except for the checkmate part (dropped pawns are much more powerful in
this game than in normal Shogi).  As for Rule 1, I like it because it
forces the players to come up with somewhat more strategic methods of
checkmate.  (However, your suggestions have not gone unnoticed!  How does
Michael Nelson no Ryu Shogi sound for a variant name?)

I will send an update in shortly.  (My computer crashed recently, so I no
longer have the original document.  I will not be sending in a new file
altogether, but rather some plain text.)

Michael Nelson wrote on 2003-07-30 UTC
Jared,

I would suggest eliminating rules 2, 6 and 7 and rephrasing rule 4 to
conform to the elimination of rule 6.

The bare King rule is unnecessary--if the player has only his King and
nothing in hand he can be checkmated quite easily.

I suggest rewriting rule 1 to allow drops in the fourth zone with these
provisions:

1. You may not promote as you drop (same as Shogi).
2. To promote, you must move the piece you dropped in the fourth zone
within the fourth zone (contrary to Shogi, where you can promote a piece
whose move starts in the promotion zone and ends outside it).  

I would also consider eliminating the pawn drop restrictions--definately
the file restriction and possibly the checkmate restriction as well.

Jared McComb wrote on 2003-07-30 UTCGood ★★★★
I'm thinking about eliminating the entire double-move rule altogether.  I
do know that the demotion has got to go, though, and I like the 'no drops
in zone 4' rule -- if you could drop there, they could drop adjacent to
it and capture your piece with the just-dropped piece, assuming they have
something in hand (unless I illegalize that, too, which I'm also
considering).  I'll probably send Mr. Aronson a revision sometime next
week.  (And I'm totally clueless when it comes to advanced ZRF
programming techniques.)

And as for the large version, the main reason I would want to do that
would be to make more space (I'd like a piece density of about 40%).  So
I would probably be able to keep all the rules from the small version
intact, and add a minimal amount of pieces.

(And thanks, Mr. Lawson, for that name suggestion.  Dai Ryu (Dairyu? 
Dai-ryu?) sounds good to me, too.)

--Jared

John Lawson wrote on 2003-07-30 UTC
Jared -

If I may be bold enough to suggest:

1. Spend some more time polishing this game.  The problematic rules are
demotion, no drops in opponent's home zone, drop and move is your own
home zone.  Work on this one before you move on to the larger one.  You
already know that people like it, and it was a finalist, even if you
received no prize.  The experience will make the next variant better.

2. Try to find someone to playtest, even via email.  Ralph Betza once said
that one playtest game by strangers was worth a hundred played by
yourself.

3. Send the revision to the editors, and, if you ask nicely, the ZRF could
be updated to match.  Or you could try it yourself.

4. Then, I might write Steve about your game, but don't hold out much
hope.  The last revision of Shogivar was over five years ago.

5. How about 'Dai Ryu Shogi'?

Regards,
John

Jared McComb wrote on 2003-07-29 UTCGood ★★★★
The reasons I have a somewhat low opinion of this game are:

1.  I did not spend very much time (in fact, almost no time at all)
designing it.
2.  I did not (and still do not) have a competent opponent to play it
with.
3.  I didn't win a prize with this game (admittedly, this is kind of
juvenile, but it had a small influence nonetheless).

I am honored, though, that so many people find this game attractive. 
However, I agree that the demotion rule is a very bad one (who was it who
said a beautiful rule may not be a good one?), and would like any editor
who happens to be passing by to remove the rule, and all references to
it.

I am working on a larger version of this, but I do not know how to say
'great dragon' or 'expanded dragon' in Japanese.

In conclusion, if you would like to thank me for this game, email Steve
Evans and ask him to incorporate it into his SV program.

--Jared

Michael Nelson wrote on 2003-07-28 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
I judged this game in my group during the preliminaries and have I higher opinion of the game than the author does. A refreshing change of pace for the Shogi player. I think the design as submitted is a good one--in fact I voted Ryu Shogi above the eventual winner. The only design decision I would change if it were up to me is to eliminate the rule that a promoted piece reverts to non-promoted if it returns to the first zone--it makes for a stronger defense if you have the option of anchoring your weak pieces with a strong piece. All in all, a fine design.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on 2003-07-10 UTC
There is an error in the ZRF. You can take opposite king and the game is not finished, Zillions continues playing.

Roberto Lavieri wrote on 2003-06-17 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
I like this game and the mobility of pieces depending on the ZONE they are on. It has some elements of historic variants, but it is a modern like-Shogi game with a really good game play. Excellent.

Jared wrote on 2002-12-17 UTCGood ★★★★
Forgot to say, though, it is permissible to move an on-board pawn into a
file containing another one while it is in the second or third zone.

--Jared

Jared wrote on 2002-12-15 UTCGood ★★★★
Didn't you read Rule Zero?  Of course these apply!  :)

--Jared

Peter Aronson wrote on 2002-12-15 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Jared, I'm working on a ZRF for this game, and want to double check something. In the standard <a href='../shogi.html'>Shogi</a> rules: <blockquote><i> A Pawn may not be dropped onto a file containing a non-promoted Pawn. </i></blockquote> And <blockquote><i> A checkmate may not be performed by the drop of a Pawn. A King may be checked by dropping a Pawn, but only if the drop does not result in an immediate checkmate. </i></blockquote> I assume these rules apply in <b>Ryu Shogi</b> too?

Jared wrote on 2002-12-10 UTC
Yes, they move as third-zone pieces, but they keep their third-zone move
until they move back to the first zone.  (i.e. they keep their move even
in the second zone.)

--Jared

Daniel Roth wrote on 2002-12-10 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Nice game but one question.
How does the promoted pieces move around? I assume that they are moving
the same way as the third rank pieces it presented before it is promoted.

Yours D. Roth

Peter Aronson wrote on 2002-11-30 UTC
It's on my list, Jared! However, the list is longish, so don't expect it right away.

Jared wrote on 2002-11-28 UTCExcellent ★★★★★
Would it be possible for Mr. Aronson to write a ZRF for this?

--Jared

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