[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ][ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ][ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]Comments/Ratings for a Single Item Later ⇩Reverse Order⇧ Earlier⇩ Earliest⇧ Navia Dratp. An upcoming commercial chess variant with collectible, tradable pieces. (7x7, Cells: 49) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]V. Reinhart wrote on 2017-10-22 UTCThanks Fergus. So the entry in the alphabetical listing is a little out-dated "An upcoming commercial chess variant with collectible, tradable pieces" Not sure if it can be changed, but the entry drew my attention because inventors that make the commitment to release actual physical variant chess sets is of interest to me. Greg Strong wrote on 2017-10-22 UTCThe first capture of their website by archive.org is dated August 18 2008, but comments here go back to 2006. V. Reinhart wrote on 2017-10-22 UTCIs there a way to know when this page was written? The introduction says "An upcoming commercial chess variant with collectible, tradable pieces", but some comments are more than 10 years old. I can't find a publication date for this variant. (If it's there but I overlooked it please forgive me). Eager Learn wrote on 2017-10-22 UTCGood ★★★★www.naviadratp.net no longer working (zzo38) A. Black wrote on 2011-01-22 UTCI have watched a game being played Navia Dratp, at anime convention. George Duke wrote on 2008-08-20 UTCGary Gifford recently refers to Navia Dratp 17.April.2008 as ''truly fantastic variant.'' Let's keep this one in mind when comparing, categorizing and cataloguing CVs. Two-player N.D. is 7x7 of 49 squares. I strongly agree with Joyce of Short-Range having bias against over-strong pieces like Marshall(RN) and Cardinal(BN) that can ruin things; and there may be none of those here. How many piece-types, represented in ''figurines to be numbered in the hundreds,'' and in cards too it says under ''Pieces,'' are there to be in Navia Dratp, or are there already by now? Article cites ''anime/manga-styled gods, angels, demons, faeries and some comical critters as well.'' There are well over 100 Comments 2004 to 2006, a discussion I for one had to ignore -- and none at all directly this 2008 -- so several enthusiasts may be expert to enlighten on the benefits of Navia Dratp. Or is it trade secret requiring purchase that must be tred lightly like Seirawan's or Trice's? If there are many piece-types as suggested, is the model for design the large Shogis, such as old Taikyoku Shogi with over 100 promotees alone? Or Adrian King's Typhoon (1999) having 75 piece-types imitating large Shogis as short-range? Any updates of substance on Navia Drapt? Stephen Tavener wrote on 2007-12-03 UTCExcellent ★★★★★We have a lot of information on the game available at www.naviadratp.net, including piece listings, forums, and rules. Come on over! Larry Wheeler wrote on 2007-02-09 UTCBoardGameGeek.com has some useful info, some brought over from the Navia Dratp Enthusiasts Yahoo group, like an easy-to-read copy of the rules with FAQ. I don't suppose there's any reason to repeat those here, unless someone has an improved version. There are many obscure combinations of the rules which we now know will never be officially ruled on, many of which will never happen (but could), like my favorite: a ring of three Kanabas confining each other! I think the game has to be respected in its entirety as an artistic concept, even though the names and forms of the playing elements may seem arbitrary to some. Most of the 'ugliness' of the pieces owes to the fact that most of them come unpainted. See the game Dreamblade for how to do it right (but it's still a collectible game, unfortunately). Mark Thompson wrote on 2006-12-22 UTCIt looks like Bandai's website for this game is defunct, and most other online information refers people to the Bandai website for the complete rules. Perhaps we should add descriptions of all the pieces here? Jianying Ji wrote on 2006-06-19 UTCThis is the link to the announcement that bandai is abandoning Navia Dratp. New development is on hold indefinitely as is official sanctioned tournaments. Gary Gifford wrote on 2006-03-02 UTCI agree with the previous Navia Dratp comment, except for the last line, i.e., I doubt that it will become a standard. I also have the feeling that it will not gain a large following, for instance, when compared to Chess and Magic the Gathering. Time may prove me wrong. In a few days I get to play Navia Dratp via e-mail against a chess master who had also won the Grand Chess Correspondance World Championship a few years back. Though I expect to get clobbered, I do think that it will be a blast of a game. First phase: take turns picking our 7 warriors from a pool of 29 first edition pieces. Anthony Grant wrote on 2006-03-01 UTCExcellent ★★★★★I recently started playing ND, and I don't think there will be an end to the games. I have yet to encounter the same strategy twice. This helps to keep the game more interesting. The pieces are very well done, the mechanics are well put together, and having the different pieces allows for a greater array of playing styles. I think that the names do add to the 'atmosphere' of the game. They help me to get into the game more as the Navia Commander. The economics are also a fantastic way to make you think about every move that much more. You want to be sure that you are either not giving your opponent a free oppertunity to earn Gyullas while earning as many as you can at the same time. I believe that in the coming future ND will become a standard for fantasy CVs. Gary Gifford wrote on 2006-01-28 UTCMT: Energy crystals, money, what's the difference. Gary G response: Crystals set up for a magic atmosphere. Also, I cannot use crystals to buy things in the U.S. MT: While I agree that dratping isn't exactly the same as promoting, the concept is close enough. Gary G response: Dratping is a more precise term for the game being discussed. MT: ... coining a new word that's unrelated to anything in the language -- AND is either almost-unpronouncable or has a silent letter, what's with that? Gary G response: Dratp (pronounced 'Drap', not too difficult) How do we ever get new words? Silent letters- gee whiz, are we to throw out much of the English language. Look at words like giraffe (crazy 'g') and phone (ph acting like 'f') etc. MT: Silent letters are vestiges of pronunciations from earlier times, what's the point of including one in a new coinage? Gary G response: It is for a new game with a mysterious atmoshphere. But if we want to keep asking 'why' we can hit a virtual brick wall fairly quick. I am learning Russian, I can call a cat a kooshka, and I can say dobrahdeen and dosvidawnya... but why? Because others know these words and I can learn them and want to... but I don't have to. Dratping is another word to my vocabulary. Navia Dratp players understand it. It is not that hard. Why make a big deal of this game's language? MT: My aesthetic preferences are admittedly my own, and though I feel I have good reasons behind them, I don't expect everyone else to share them. These things depend on individual judgment, sentiment, and taste. As I've already said, it's a fine game. Gary G response: I am glad you think it is a fine game. I do too. As far as the game's linguistic aspect, I don't know why some people want to keep complaining about it. Mark Thompson wrote on 2006-01-28 UTCEnergy crystals, money, what's the difference. It's stuff you earn by doing something and pay out to get privileges: by me that's money. And while I agree that dratping isn't exactly the same as promoting, the concept is close enough. A space elevator isn't exactly an elevator, but calling it that makes the idea clearer than coining a new word that's unrelated to anything in the language -- AND is either almost-unpronouncable or has a silent letter, what's with that? Silent letters are vestiges of pronunciations from earlier times, what's the point of including one in a new coinage? My aesthetic preferences are admittedly my own, and though I feel I have good reasons behind them, I don't expect everyone else to share them. These things depend on individual judgment, sentiment, and taste. As I've already said, it's a fine game. Gary Gifford wrote on 2006-01-28 UTCIn response to my brief question [which was from a larger context) 'Is Lord Kiggoshi such a terrible name?' Mark Thompson replied: 'No, Kiggoshi does sound Japanese. But Chugyullas, Coydrocomp, Nebguard? --- Gary G response: What about Cyclops, Hydra, Medusa from stories of old? Were these not strange names that we've simply gotten used to? Should I rename Medusa Shogi to Snake-Haired Lady Drop Chess? Mark asked: Gyullas (to mean simply Money)? --- Gary G response: Gyullas are energy crystals. They are not money. Mark asked: Dratp (to mean simply Promote)? ---- Gary G response: Dratping a piece can increase or decrease a piece's movement. It can also result in that piece leaving the board, depending on the Dratp effect, or in earning more Gyullas (money if you prefer-but they are not money), or in bringing another piece into the battle... etc. So, I prefer Dratp to the word promote. Though Dratping is certainly related to promoting... it is more intense and requires an expenditure of Gyullas (crystals). In fact, the Navia Dratp (costing 60 Gyullas) instatly wins the game for the person making that Drapt. And that is how I lost my first game of ND. Fergus Duniho wrote on 2006-01-28 UTCSomeone wrote: I cannot help the fact that I am not a member. You do have the option of following this link and becoming a registered user, which has all the same benefits as being a member. Chess Variant Pages Membership / Registration Mark Thompson wrote on 2006-01-28 UTC'Is Lord Kiggoshi such a terrible name?' No, Kiggoshi does sound Japanese. But Chugyullas, Coydrocomp, Nebguard? Gyullas (to mean simply Money)? Dratp (to mean simply Promote)? As you say, we have different tastes. And the names don't spoil the game for me, because when I'm playing I don't think about them. Gary Gifford wrote on 2006-01-27 UTCRegarding the 'booster pack' concept. As Michael stated, '. . . it means you don't know what you're buying before you buy it.' Well, 2 points here: (1) you don't need booster packs. (2) You can buy pieces individually. I bought 4 extra pieces to allow for greater game variety. I saw them on the internet and knew the exact piece I was getting. $1.50 to $2 is not unreasonable to me for these. In regard to 'fantasy-like piece and action names aestheically unpleasing, ... ' As well as Mark Thompson's comment, '.. as far as the aesthetics of the game are concerned, I'm completely with Michael Howe. The forms of the pieces are repulsive, the bizarre names for everything (including the game itself) pointlessly ugly.' Well, we have different tastes. I find the actual pieces and the many Japanese or otherwise bizarre sounding names interesting. My family (fairly mainstream) from the wife, 18 year old, 15, 9, and 6 year old all like the pieces. The pieces set the mood (the atmosphere) for the game. Is Lord Kiggoshi such a terrible name? Are Rook and Bishop better? As Shakespeare wrote, 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.' I had my second game of Navia Dratp tonight, again with my 15 year old son. I won that game, but only by one tempo. It was a game with lots of strategy, and many tactical shots. It was fun. For those who don't like the pieces, I can understand that, as I certainy had strong dislike for original Smess pieces and the board. This is simular situation. But as I pointed out in an earlier comment, you could make the ND movement grids, glue the Drapt and non-Dratp sides to checkers and ignore piece names. To me that would destroy the atmoshpere of this game. But you could do it and play the game that way. And use pennies, nickles and dimes instead of crystals. As for me, I do not mind bringing Lord Kiggoshi or Tiny Kiggoshi onto the battlefield. Their images and their names don't bother me in the least... nor do the names and images of the other characters. In regard to 'repulsive, bizarre,' to me that seems to fit the world-wide news far better than it does ND. Mark Thompson wrote on 2006-01-27 UTCAs far as the aesthetics of the game are concerned, I'm completely with Michael Howe. The forms of the pieces are repulsive, the bizarre names for everything (including the game itself) pointlessly ugly. But I've played at least half a dozen games, and the game itself is very good. I can hardly wait for the copyright to run out, so I can create an isomorphic game with sensible, euphonic names and pleasant-looking pieces. WHY does anyone create ugliness when beauty is within easy reach? I suppose I could make my own version even now, but they deserve to make money on their invention from people like me as long as they're trying to, so eventually I'll probably buy their equipment. But not without gnashing my teeth. Anonymous wrote on 2006-01-27 UTC>It's not completely reliable, of course, and I didn't say that ND is a poor game... You did, in fact, say that ND was a poor game with your rating of 'Poor'. It is one thing to rate a page poor when one has not played the game described within if the instructions are unclear. But that is not true in this case. I do not claim that ND is a perfect game. But neither is any other chess variant here, and thus if rating games in relation to other games here seems illogical. I am sorry if this comment or the previous one seemed hostile. But I cannot help the fact that I am not a member. Gary Gifford wrote on 2006-01-26 UTCI just wanted to verify that it was not me who made the comment Michael Howe ojected to. In fact, at first I thought the comment was criticising me for not actually having played the game (only having looked at the ND games of others). Anyway, the UPS delivered it a few hours ago and I was impressed with the size and detail of the pieces. Even the wife was impressed... and she's not a gamer. My 15 year-old son challenged me to a game while I was setting up the board and, though I tried to win, I lost due to that economic crystal factor (my Masters Degree In Business Administration and my paper on Gaming Theory failed to help me). Now, understand that my son has never come close to beating me at chess and I give him 1-Rook-odds and there is a $10 reward for when he does win. But, with Navia Drapt I had no handicap for him and no reward (good thing) because I saw his eyes light up and he became full of excitement as he saw the winning plan. This does not proove it is a good game. However, it does proove to my son and me, that it is a fun game and that one can not win by chess-like strategy alone. And I assure you, he did win by a solid game plan, not luck. I look forward to the next game... Anonymous wrote on 2006-01-26 UTC> ...and play the many excellent and free chess variants found on these pages, many of which are better games than Navia anyway. I find it sad that you claim to know how good of a game a game is when you haven't yet tried it. Gary Gifford wrote on 2006-01-26 UTCOnce you have the 2 Navia Dratp starters (that you can acquire for about $30 ($14.98 per individual set)from a few on-line game stores) you can play Navia Dratp over-the-board. At the beginning of a game you and your opponent can take turns drawing pieces from the lot... or, you can pick your starting army at random. This should take care of the 'power paranoia' aspect of the game. There is no need to buy expansion pieces, none at all. The extra pieces just allow for more variety in strategy and tactics. They also allow for someone to collect figures and possibly paint them (as a hobby, if one desires). As for the artistic aspect, 'Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.' In regard to being able to play over games, I drew a 7x7 board in MS paint. Then I drew the movement patterns (available at www.naviadratp.com under 'piece list). I then cut and relocated the MS Paint pieces. This was how I played over the Chess Master's game 3 times. But you could also put the movement disks on checkers (having a Dratp and non-Dratp side) and use a real board. In regard to the Navi Dratp naming convention, yes, they are a bit strange in some cases, sounding like ancient Japanese Warriors or ancient mythical creatures, but as in the one Wings song, 'What's wrong with that, I'd like to know.' Gary Gifford wrote on 2006-01-26 UTCExcellent ★★★★★I was introduced to Navia Dratp recently by Chess Master John Vehre, who speaks highly of the game. I have since played over one of Mr. Vehre's tournament ND games 3 times and a few games of others. These games convinced me that Navia Dratp is a great game. I also see each piece as a small work of art. As for the cost... I was able to order the two starters from a gaming company for $14.98 each (that is not close to the $60 mentioned in another comment, though I did see them listed at that high price elsewhere). Unlike most strategy games, this one allows for an astronomical number of opening scenarios. To play a game well one must consider piece play and economics (of a crystal wealth factor which changes with moves, captures, and promotions (Dratps). My sets (and a few individual pieces I ordered separately) are scheduled to arrive tomorrow and I look very much forward to them. My Shogi opponent at work and I will be giving Navia Dratp some serious game play. Matt Arnold wrote on 2006-01-25 UTCWhat Tim says is true. Since the time that I wrote the article for this web page, Navia Dratp continues to be one of my favorite board games ever, which I play all the time. The Resurgence expansion really rounded out what it needed. I had no problem getting all the pieces by buying them ala carte from internet sellers, so I didn't waste money waiting for the luck of the draw to give me everything from booster packs. It's true that it's pricy, but I happen to like the miniatures as pieces of art. I recommend that you try the virtual online Navia Dratp which is available on the mailing list. 25 comments displayedLater ⇩Reverse Order⇧ Earlier⇩ Earliest⇧Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.