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Kozune. Missing description (9x9, Cells: 81) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Daniil Frolov wrote on Mon, Jul 26, 2010 04:20 PM UTC:
Here is preset:

/play/pbm/play.php?game%3DKozune+vs+FIDE%26settings%3DKozune+vs+FIDE

Daniil Frolov wrote on Mon, Jul 26, 2010 04:13 PM UTC:
Ok, if no one answers, here are my rules for kozune vs FIDE:
Kozune plyer fuirst drops all his  pieces on first 2 ranks. When FIDE player makes first move. When players alternates moves. Pawns simplymakes double step, en-passant is impossible, promotes only on last rank. Bishops moves only on one of colors, unless something was suggested before playing.
I'll make preset now.

Daniil Frolov wrote on Sun, Jul 18, 2010 11:08 AM UTC:
I made preset for this:

/play/pbm/play.php?game%3DKozune%26settings%3DKozune

I represented pieces with wazir-dababa and ferz-alfil moves with simple elephant and dababa (and compounds), it's clear, that they have moves of ferz and wazir, so i don't think it have to be marked. I used lion icon for kozune, as piece with same move was called 'lion' in some games (i did not find special icon for alfil-dababa-knight compound).

By the way, what are exact rules of game, where Kozune plays against FIDE chess (mentoided below)? How drops in beggining works, are there special rules for FIDE pawns and bishops on squares af same color? (i want to make preset for this to)

George Duke wrote on Sat, Jan 10, 2009 08:08 PM UTC:
There they are. Wazir Dabbaba Knight. Ferz Alfil Knight.

David Paulowich wrote on Sat, Apr 14, 2007 12:24 PM UTC:
The Kirin (Kylin) in Dai Shogi moves {1,1}+{0,2} just like the 'diamond'.  Dai Shogi also has a variety of nonleaping pieces.  The Hiryu (Flying Dragon) combines the moves of the two diagonal pieces in Xiangqi, making it a 2-step Bishop.  The Mogyu (Violent Ox) is a 2-step Rook.

Abdul-Rahman Sibahi wrote on Sat, Apr 14, 2007 06:17 AM UTC:
In fact the Wazir-Dabbabah and the Ferz-Alfil have already been invented by T.R. Dawson.

To quote :

--
A compound leaper is a piece that can make two or more different, non-null, patterns of leap. The simplest and best known of course is the king. Names for all combinations using coordinates less than 3 are:
{0,1} + {1,1} = king,
{0,1}+{0,2} = wazaba, {1,1}+{0,2} = diamond,
{0,1}+(1,2} = emperor, {1,1}+{1,2} = prince, {0,2}+{1,2} = templar,
{0,1}+{2,2} = caliph, {1,1}+{2,2} = ferfil, {0,2}+{2,2} = alibaba, {1,2}+{2,2} = hospitaler.

Some other combinations named by chess problemists are:
{0,2}+{1,2}+{2,2} = squirrel, {1,2}+{1,3} = gnu, {1,3}+{2,3} = bison. 
--
from : http://www.ktn.freeuk.com/9a.htm#(3)

On a different note :
Ralph Betza's Waffle and Chu Shogi's Phoenix are also called the Caliph. Charels Gilman's piece of the same name is a misnomer, because the Caliph is not a religious title. (It means successor.)

💡📝Joshua Morris wrote on Fri, Apr 13, 2007 07:59 PM UTC:
Drops *are* terrifying, especially to the newcomer; I've played enough
Bughouse to know that.  I think drops explain why Shogi masters are
naturally good at Chess whereas Chess masters often struggle with Shogi.

Regular Kozune doesn't use drops, however, unless one counts the Sho's
ability to create pawns.

I think it's natural for these 'new' pieces to be rediscovered
independently over and over, especially if the 'inventors' have
read Betza's articles here on CV.  If one likes short-range pieces, the
Wazir-Dabbabah and Ferz-Alfil are the natural complements to the standard
Knight.

And they are vicious little pieces.  One of the things we discovered while
playing Kozune was that checks can never be blocked - if the Sho is in
check, he *has* to move.  This is obvious in hindsight, but came as an
amusing surprise during playtesting.

My local ChessVar club has plans to play Chess vs Kozune on a 9x9 board. 
We'll see just how vicious these shorties can be when put up against the
much heavier firepower of the Orthodox Chess army (plus an extra Queen!). 
Perhaps the Kozune army's agility can overpower the Chess army's brute
strength.  I'll post here when it's been tried.

Joe Joyce wrote on Fri, Apr 13, 2007 05:48 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Joshua, sorry I didn't pay attention to this when it first came out. My only excuse, a poor one, is that I am still new enough to any chess variants that I avoid the non-Western ones, frankly because drops terrify me. But as far as pieces go, you posted a good chunk of the pieces I developed for 'Two Large Shatranj Variants' 2 months before I posted 2Large. So we're at least even, as I thought/hoped I had come up with 'my' Minister [Kone] and High Priestess [Zune] first, at least in print. Hope this makes up for me beating you to 'Hyperchess'. Eric Greenwood beat us both to the Squire -> Kozu/Jumping General.
I will state that I was unaware of your pieces when I posted 2Large, and, if not for David Paulowich [who enjoys finding previous examples of my 'new' pieces - he mentioned the Squire to me] I would still be unaware that you do have precedence in those pieces. They *are* nice little pieces, aren't they? Very vicious; the kind that come right up to you and kick you in the shins while whacking you with a stick. Few people respect them until after they've been left battered and bleeding.

Larry Smith wrote on Mon, Aug 29, 2005 12:18 PM UTC:
For those who are interested, I've posted an implementation for this game at the Zillions website. Just click here for the zip file.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Mon, Aug 29, 2005 09:05 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
ok well i've played this game a few times now, and yes, it is a brilliant game. congrats :)

(zzo38) A. Black wrote on Thu, Aug 25, 2005 03:37 AM UTC:
Pieces would demote on capture, just like in Shogi. But my idea says
pawns cannot be dropped at all, only spawned, so this won't make a
difference. Kozune's (promoted pawns) cannot be dropped. I would make the
Kozune the back-side of the pawn tile, like the Tokin is on Shogi.

The promoted pieces are reduced to Pawns and discarded(since the Sho can
spawn them anytime). This was what I was thinking of as well, maybe I just
didn't write it and it is confusing.

Larry Smith wrote on Wed, Aug 24, 2005 02:27 AM UTC:
The question that would then arise about dropped pieces is 'what about
promoted Pawns?'  Would the player be allowed these new pieces if
captured?  Or would the promoted pieces by reduced to Pawns and
discarded(since the Sho can spawn them anytime).

If the promoted pieces were allowed to be played by the captor, this could
make for a potentially crowded field(though unlikely no more so than the
standard game).  If not, the promoted piece could be sacrificed, knowing
that the captor would not be able to take advantage of the capture.

I would opt for not allowing the player to drop promoted pieces.

*********************

Another idea: Restricting promotion to capture pieces. A player would only
be allowed to promote to a piece which had been previously captured by the
opponent. This would mean that unless the proper piece was available, the
player would not promote when entering the seventh and eighth rank. But on
the ninth rank, the Pawn could freely promote to the Kozune since it is not
part of the initial setup.

(zzo38) A. Black wrote on Mon, Aug 22, 2005 11:57 PM UTC:
One idea is to play with drops, except that pawns cannot be dropped, only spawned from kings. In this way the board will not get extremely flooded of pieces. Try it

Larry Smith wrote on Mon, Aug 22, 2005 01:54 AM UTC:
I've completed a ZRF for Kozune, now testing it for errors. Hopefully, I'll post it before the end of the week.

💡📝Joshua Morris wrote on Wed, Aug 10, 2005 07:53 AM UTC:
>
> A small inner-game dynamic question:  Can a Sho actually spawn
> other pieces on its seventh, eighth and ninth ranks?
>


I think it's better to let the Sho spawn only pawns.  This way, it takes
at least two moves to create a powerful piece - one to create the pawn and
one for the pawn to take a step.  This gives the opponent a chance to do
something about it.

(There should probably be a rule that pawns can't be created on the 9th
rank, but that seems obvious enough to go without saying.)

On the other hand, I can envision a 'Summoner's Duel' type of variant
where all pieces begin in-hand and enter the board only when summoned by
the Sho.

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.  I hope the gameplay lives up to
your expectations.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Wed, Aug 10, 2005 04:28 AM UTC:
the simple rules given by inventor sound best to me, king only spawns pawns and no drops, though as he said, an interesting variant would be one with drops. i'm sure i'll be rating this 'excellent', i'm barely stopping myself from giving it that already.

(zzo38) A. Black wrote on Wed, Aug 10, 2005 03:41 AM UTC:

Yes I knew that hiragana was the feminine form, although today most documents use hiragana for japanese words and katakana for words transliterated to japanese. I agree katakana would be better for this game though, also the symbols look kind of better for this game. The symbols in katakana almost look like their movement types, but not quite (it would make it easier for non-japanese people to remember how the pieces move). I was just saying hiragana could be used, but it probably is better to use katakana. But, the compounds would require more than one symbol.


Larry Smith wrote on Wed, Aug 10, 2005 02:40 AM UTC:
A small inner-game dynamic question:  Can a Sho actually spawn other pieces
on its seventh, eighth and ninth ranks?

It would be similar to a Pawn moving onto these ranks and then promoting. 
Granted that the file restriction ought to be enforced.

(zzo38)A.Black, did you know that hiragana is often used to denote a 
feminine form?  This is not to say that it would not be proper to use but 
it might convey that meaning.  Katakana(sword strokes) are slightly more 
aggressive.

(zzo38) A. Black wrote on Tue, Aug 9, 2005 11:16 PM UTC:
I play with drops as well, and I think you should use Kanji for the king and pawns, and katakana or hiragana symbols for Ko-Zu-Ne. Also have a set of symbols like +,x,o as well, they would also be good. I also think black should go first, like in Shogi

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Tue, Aug 9, 2005 10:08 AM UTC:
yes there is dabbaba/wazir graphic, but not a fers/alfil but most that use
that combo use the elephant, which would suit more than bishop, seeing
dabbaba is old piece etc
brilliant idea about the king spawning pawns!

Charles Gilman wrote on Tue, Aug 9, 2005 07:01 AM UTC:Good ★★★★
Using Rook and Bishop graphics for the pieces that move in the same directions seems a good idea. That way there are obvious extrapolations for the compound pieces.

💡📝Joshua Morris wrote on Sun, Aug 7, 2005 09:02 AM UTC:
We've been playing without drops; as Larry Smith implied, the Sho's
ability to create pawns makes draws uncommon.  A Sho on it's seventh rank
is a dangerous beast.  'Drop Kozune' could be a fine variant, however.

We've been using plain old rooks, bishops, and knights for pieces.  It's
easy enough to remember, 'This piece looks like a rook, so it moves like a
rook, but only two spaces.  And it leaps.'  Well, perhaps not so easy.  It
does challenge our Chess-based pattern recognition.

You could use graphics from the Alfarie collection on Game Courier.  I
know there is a Wazir-Dabbaba graphic (the 'Woody Rook' from The
Remarkable Rookies), and there's probably a Ferz-Alfil.  An ordinary
knight should suffice for the Ne, since they are identical.

For symbolic representation, I like a modified Parham notation:

ko: +
zu: x
ne: o

A kozu would be a + and x combined, a zune an x in a circle, etc.

Sadly, I can't use Zillions; I don't run Windows.  Even so, I would be
thrilled to see a ZRF.

Christine Bagley-Jones wrote on Sun, Aug 7, 2005 05:08 AM UTC:
this game does sound really cool, it would be great to see a zrf. Seeing people seem interested in making piece graphics, and have different ideas, it could always have a couple of designs, to please all.

Greg Strong wrote on Sun, Aug 7, 2005 04:59 AM UTC:
I don't like pieces with oriental characters; or any other characters for
that matter.  That makes it harder to see what is going on.  Imagine
playing Chess with Scrabble tiles - 'R' for Rook, 'B' for bishop, etc.
 It would be much harder to see what is going on.  

For this game I would like to see pieces with movement diagrams, like the
pieces in Scirocco.  And, since the pieces are so short-range, it should
be easy.  In fact I will probably whip up some piece graphics in the next
couple of days.

Larry Smith wrote on Sun, Aug 7, 2005 04:00 AM UTC:
With the Sho able to spawn Pawns, and Pawns able to promote to any other
piece, there really does not appear that drops are needed.

Unless the author has an idea for the graphics of these pieces, I would be
happy to give it a go.  Maybe something symbolic and oriental, without
using Kanji.  How about Katakana?

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