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This item is a play-by-email page
It belongs to categories: Orthodox chess, 
It was last modified on: 2018-11-25
 By Kevin  Pacey. Compound Chess. Chess on a 10x8 board with Sergeant pawns & armies of compound pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-12-20 UTC

On the bright side, at least any given preset index page allows for Comments to be posted about the preset in question, so the preset index page does not strictly only serve just to give a link to the preset itself. Such Comments might be best reserved for discussing such issues as the quality of the preset graphics, normally, however.

I have noticed in the past that many preset index pages on CVP that exist already do not have a matching rules page. Many of the authors of such unmatched preset index pages would currently or possibly even forevermore be unavailable to make a matching game page (unless someone else authored one). In such cases, game rules are often, but not always, provided on the preset index pages. When the rules are not, I myself have always thought of going to the minor trouble of clicking on the preset link from the preset index page (to see if rules are offered with the preset itself), though some people may fear they are committing themselves to playing, maybe?! Anyway, almost always game rules have been on the preset in question, but I would otherwise have no idea what the rules are in cases when no such rules are provided on the preset itself.


Greg Strong wrote on 2018-12-19 UTC

I think the current situation with these pages is not good.  You need to open the preset itself to see the rules, and people won't know to do that.  Aurelian didn't know to do that and he is an experienced user of this site.  Here are what I think are the options to improve these, ranging from least-good but easiest, to the best but most difficult.

1.  Just put the rules on the GC Preset page as well as the on the preset itself.  Kevin noted that Fergus didn't want these pages clogged with rules, but a couple of points: First, the rules are very, very simple.  You only need to know a couple thigns to play and it is only a paragraph so I don't think it is problematic to put them here.  I agree that it would be undesirable for complicated games that require more than a paragraph or two to explain.  Secondly, there are no separate game pages to reference.

2.  Game description pages for each game could be made.

3.  What I think would be best is a site-wide redesign to eliminate the duplication of having separately indexed preset pages.  But this would require a lot of planning and a lot of work.  Fergus and I have (briefly) discussed the desirability of redesigning the site to be more game-centric.


H. G. Muller wrote on 2018-12-19 UTC

To add my 2 cents on this issue:

  • It seems completely pointless to me to have pages that contain no information, and just link to a page that does.
  • I think it is very bad to have GC presets for variants for which there exists no regular article with a full rule description and a diagram. I would support a policy that strictly prevents this.

Ben Reiniger wrote on 2018-12-19 UTC

Ah, I must have missed/forgot about that.  Anyway, it's good to have the answer in this comment thread.

Having a Game page is certainly optimal (for Game page queries, for Favorites, etc.), but I don't mind these hanging GC link pages short-term.  I hadn't noticed the actual presets having the pieces' movements given, so that's enough for now.

Having these pages might help someone notice that the name exists; but if they search only for Game pages or don't do any searching, they may still submit a Game page with the same name as your game, blocking you from doing the same later...


Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-12-19 UTC

Thanks Ben. Somehow I thought I made a point of being careful whenever entering the board size parameters for e.g. a preset page, but maybe I was in a rush?!

Regarding Aurelian's question, Greg answered it earlier for me (in the Champagne Chess preset comment thread). He also suggested having rules on my preset index pages for the 9 recent presets I submitted that were accepted by an editor. I can only think for now of repeating my reply to Greg (in the Champagne Chess preset comment thread), in case you missed it:

Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-12-03 EST

Hi Greg

I'm not sure of the details, but I seem to remember long ago Fergus instructed me to the effect of trying to keep an index page for a preset fairly clean, such as free of rules descriptions, as he felt such a page was meant to be simply a gateway to the actual preset itself.  Thus, that's why I've tried to do it that way since then.

[edit: P.S.: Fergus wrote on 2016-12-07 EST: "You don't need to explain all the rules on this {index} page {for my old Carrousel Chess preset}. This is just a jumping off page for a Game Courier preset. The appropriate place for the rules is the rules page, which you can link to from here, and the preset itself."]

Before I've almost always first made a rules page for a given game I've invented, with Introduction, Setup, Pieces, Rules, Notes sections given, as is customary for such pages, and people could read these (besides looking at the actual preset). This time I meant to get a whole bunch of games out there without taking much longer than I already had, as a lot of the games were revived ideas of long ago. It also can pay to use a name for a game before someone else might take it, as I discovered recently. I may get around to doing rules pages for some or all of my 9 recently released presets, but it could take a while.


Ben Reiniger wrote on 2018-12-19 UTC

That depends on the meta-information you provide when you submit the game.  I think I've fixed them both.  (This game was listed as 8x10, but with 96 cells, and WAD Chess was listed as 8x8.  I added both to the Large category.)

You should address Aurelian's question, here and on the rest of your batch of preset submissions.  (I added such links to one of your submissions and approved it, before another editor approved the rest.  You may want to consider creating Game pages for them, unless they are still in testing?)


Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-12-18 UTC

Somehow this preset is currently not listed when using a database query search for 10x8 size boards. Nor do I see it listed as a large board variant. It is, however, showing up in the Alphabetical Index, but that would be a harder route for someone searching for games of this particular board size, to be able to soon find or notice this preset listed under.

All the above also applies to my WAD Chess preset.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-12-03 UTC

How do the pieces move?


Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-12-01 UTC

My tentative piece value estimates (for on this game's 10x8 board) would be: S=1.54(or 1.5 approx.); NP=5.07(or 5 approx.); BD=5.35(or 5.25 approx.); RA=7.1(or 7 approx.); NGU=7.58(or 7.5 approx.); QAD=12.45(or 12.5 approx.) and Ks fighting value=3.2. Note that e.g. just 3 sergeant pawns are worth about a NP or BD, which is why sergeants are to go with the chosen armies, i.e. to make trading a low number of them for a piece feasible at times, sort of as in chess. Also, all the pieces and pawns in the setup are arguably compound pieces (even a K, which can move like a ferz or wazir), which explains the name of this variant. Note that all the sergeants are protected in the setup.


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