[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ][ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ][ List Latest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]Comments/Ratings for a Single Item Later ⇩Reverse Order⇧ Earlier Flipworld. Pieces are on both sides of a disc. (6x7x2, Cells: 84) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]Anthony Viens wrote on 2018-08-30 UTCSo, there are 3 things I find interesting about this board. 1) It's a round board, with a way across the center...rare, but there are others. 2) The nexus allows for forking both top and flipside, even with a rook. 3) The nexus connection between top and flipside allows for some really interesting gateway interplay. Unlike typical board squares, two squares may simultaneously be the target of a single move. Unfortunately, the setup of army pieces does not take advantage of 1 & 2. Having the topside all one color and flipside the other essentially neuters two thirds of what I find interesting. Another variant is forming in my brain..... Anthony Viens wrote on 2018-08-22 UTCGood ★★★★INTERESTING. Wow. I like. Bishop moves are darn tricky. They have an abundance of paths to take, I'm guessing they are valued approxamently the same as a rook. Also, don't rooks tend to be more dangerous on a circuar board? Consequently, the queen might be overly powerful. I honestly think that there could be more peices to play with the different angles. I think this has a germ of brilliance, but incomplete. This definitly has some unrealized potential. George Duke wrote on 2017-03-15 UTCAnother interesting circular CV for this week's Pi Day. RNBKQP get two additions, weak Tocop and strong Starman, which could be explained better. The inner circuits will have most of the action. Really the Nexus, or tunnel, or lift, is not common to the different teams Topside and Flipside, because player specifies which it is on if a piece stops there. Tesselations mixed square- and triangle-boards, like Round Table Chess, stretched topologically to over-all roundness, can play with more clarity than hexagonal ones. Yet Flipworld may not have erased all ambiguity about transit through its six Nexus cells(triangles). George Duke wrote on 2005-03-15 UTCGood ★★★★'DEF,LargeCV': A novel circular chess, Flipworld may not have erased all ambiguity about transit through its six Nexus cells(triangles), but there will not be the ridiculous bottleneck of Conveyor Chess or In the Bin. RNBKQP get two additions, weak Tocop and strong Starman, which could be explained better. The inner circuits will have most of the action. Really the Nexus, or tunnel, or lift, is not common to both Topside and Flipside, because player specifies which it is on if a piece stops there. Tesselations mixed square- and triangle-boards, like Round Table Chess, stretched topologically to over-all roundness, can play better than hexagonal ones once rules clarify. Games would be brief here for reason of traps, trades, errors. Philip & John Ry wrote on 2002-12-14 UTCIn thinking about this, there were a couple of options. The nexus spaces could have been regarded as the 'tunnel' spaces, or 'lift' spaces that take you from one plane to the other. However, to fit with the notion of reverse sides, reverse worlds, the concept is that the nexus spaces are, each individually, like revolving doors; or like those walls in movies where you go from one side of a room to the other side by spinning on an axis. Hence the different color schemes in each world. So, we say that there are 84 individual spaces. When in Topside you move to or through the 7th circuit, you can choose whether to remain in the Topside or to 'flip' to the Flipside. A Pawn in the 7th circuit of Topside can be directly opposite a Knight on the Flipside: capture of an opponent's piece is not compulsory. With the below-described optional rule, capture of a piece is not even possible. John calls the following optional rule the 'Indiana Jones' rule: If you choose to do the 'non-move' of changing from Topside to Flipside during a piece's move, then any piece which is in the corresponding 'flip' position will also get flipped to your original world. This would match with the rotating wall concept. Another parallel is that the nexus spaces would be like elevators, where when you use Elevator A to go from floor T to floor F, then Elevator B automatically takes whoever is in it from floor F to floor T. Some of the diagrammed possible moves for the pieces show that a given piece can move to multiple nexus spaces. If so, it can choose which of those multiple nexus spaces it may flip in. Pieces that are moving through a nexus space can choose which of the nexus spaces they flip in. We think that the logic is that you can only flip your piece once during a move (i.e. rook cannot go from circuit 6 to 7 in topside, then flip to flipside, then cross the centre of the circle, then flip again). Thanks for spending the time examining this unique game concept. Anonymous wrote on 2002-12-13 UTCGood ★★★★If transitioning from square 7 top to square 7 flip is indeed a non-move, some ambiguities concerning capture remain. Imagine that a Topside Pawn moves to square 7 topside. Then a Flipside Knight moves to square 7 flipside. Since it is essentially the same square, is it compulsory that Knight takes Pawn, or can they co-exist? How long can they co-exist? If capturing is not compulsory, can Pawn take Knight instead in the same 'inter-turn / between-turn'? Could Topside move a different piece, and Pawn would/could still take Knight in a non-move? If capturing is compulsory, which I would suggest for logic's and clarity's sake, does the board have 84 or 78 unique cells? Philip Ryan wrote on 2002-12-12 UTC(I'm John's father, and we did discuss this... but the game and the design is entirely John's.) The 'Nexus' spaces are certainly a novel idea. After discussions with John they can be thought of as being that each space has its parallel universe space on the flipside. Probably this would create a challenge for a deterministic chess rule set, since the player can decide whether the piece stays in its current universe (flipside/topside), or shifts to the other (topside/flipside respectively), EVEN in the MIDDLE of a move. Thus a Knight can move through a Nexus space and the player can decide if the Knight remains in the current 'universe' or has shifted to the other. There is one piece which can only move in one direction through the Nexus spaces, and that is the Pawn. By the above logic, the move from flipside to topside does not take up a pawn's move. A Pawn could go from Circle 6 to 7, for example on the Topside. The next move that the Pawn could make is to go from Circle 7 on the Flipside to Circle 6 on the Flipside. JohnRyan wrote on 2002-12-12 UTCDan, thanks for taking the time on this entry. The basic idea is that the Nexus squares/cells are the same on each side. When you go to the 7th row, you are effectively on both planes at the same time, however, bending space dimensions mean that they are different cells, but it is up to the player to decide which of the two cells the piece is in, or has moved to. That is, moving from 6 to 7 you can choose to be in T17 or F67. This is confusing, and looking again at the pictures that I created representing the moves of the pieces, I realize that there are some errors. For example, the knight when moving from the flipside to the topside, didn't take the flipping of the board into account. The picture shows the topside final position of the knight incorrectly, they should be flipped with respect to the 11 o'clock, 5 o'clock axis. So the final possible positions are actually still on dark spaces, which is a change from conventional chess where the knight always changes color. Regarding the board diagrams and pictures, using your notation, the flipside of T21 is F51, and F12 is on the other side of T62. The 11 o'clock, 5 o'clock diagonal is the axis of rotation for thinking about the flipside. Dan Troyka wrote on 2002-12-12 UTCHello. I don't mean to swamp you with questions. They are all variations on the basic question of how the Nexus on Topside connects to the Nexus on Flipside. I need to understand this better in order to script sliding pieces (e.g., when are they blocked) and to count the steps for stepping and leaping pieces. The board design is novel and there is not much I can rely upon for analogy. I will send you the board I have drawn for the game as a jpeg and zrf, with position labels, which should make it easier to consider my questions. Thanks, Dan. JohnRyan wrote on 2002-12-11 UTCExcellent ★★★★★Dan Troyka-I can answer your questions, but right now I am busy, so I will have to post the answers tomorrow. I'm sorry that the rules are so confusing. I'll try to make them clearer later. Dan Troyka wrote on 2002-12-10 UTCI'm working on a zrf for this game and have some questions. Are the vectors numbered clockwise from 1 to 6 in both Topside and Flipside? If they are on opposite sides of a disc, and if vector 1 in Topside and vector 1 in Flipside are to be considered two opposite faces of the same 'pie slice', then the vectors would have to be numbered in opposite directions (clockwise from 1 to 6 on one side, and counterclockwise from 1 to 6 on the other). For purposes of the following questions I'm assuming that the key diagram in the web page applies to both Topside and Flipside, so that the vectors are numbered clockwise in both. This means that vector 2 in Topside is opposite vector 6 in Flipside, etc. If a yellow Pawn is in position T16 (Topside, vector 1, circuit 6), what space or spaces can it move to? If it can move to either T17 or F17 (F = Flipside), must T17 be empty in order for it to move to F17? What spaces can it capture on? If it can capture on F27, must T27 be empty? If a yellow Pawn is in position T17, what spaces in Flipside can it move or capture to? If it can move to F16, must F17 be empty? If a Knight is on T16, what spaces can it move to in Flipside? Same question for a Knight on T17. Same questions for a Tocop in positions T16 and T17. It appears from the diagram that a Starman in vector 5 of Topside emerges in vector 2 of Flipside when passing through the Nexus, and cannot move to F57 even though it can move to T57. In the other examples showing motion to or through the Nexus (Knight, Bishop, Tocop), a piece that can move to one space in the Nexus can always move to the corresponding space in the Nexus on the other side. What is the difference between the Starman and these other pieces? If a Rook is on T16, what spaces can it move to in Flipside? I understand from the Starman diagram that the Rook can move to space F47 and slide outward to F41. Must T17 or T47 be empty in order for the Rook to make it to Flipside? Thanks. This is an intriguing game but it is not easy to infer the details. 11 comments displayedLater ⇩Reverse Order⇧ EarlierPermalink to the exact comments currently displayed.