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This item is a game information page
It belongs to categories: Orthodox chess, 
It was last modified on: 2012-02-09
 Author: Hans L. Bodlaender and Fergus  Duniho. Shogi. Missing description (9x9, Cells: 81) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on 2020-07-04 UTC

I still have some doubts with regard to the application of this rule. In particular, when a (checking) position occurs from which it is possible to deliver perpetual checking, but instead of continuing the checking you play something else. And then later, that position occurs a second time. Now you do continue the checking, and the opponent has no way to escape it, so you get a 3rd and 4th repetition of the position.

Does this now count as perpetual checking? Not all moves since the first occurrence of the position were checks. But all moves since the 2nd and 3rd occurrence are. In my engines I would only consider the moves since the previous occurrence. (Especially because it already terminates the line at the 2nd occurrence; if it cannot break from the loop the first time it goes through it, nothing will change by trying it the second time, except that you have less search depth left, which will degrade the accuracy of the evaluation.)

I would think that only considering the moves since the previous occurrence would be more in line with the spirit of the rule; you try to force a repetition by perpetual checking, and this should not be allowed. It is just that you started the checking a bit late, but now that you are at it, and can keep it up perpetually, why should that matter? When I asked it to a Japanese in connection with mini-Shogi, however, he told me this would not be considered perpetual checking, and thus produce a sente loss. (Which is a special mini-Shogi rule; in regular Shogi that would be a draw.)


dax00 wrote on 2020-07-03 UTC

Indeed, there is a rule against perpetual checking, as an extension of the repetition rule. The repetition rule states that if a position is reached for a 4th time, with same pieces in hand and same player to move, the game is no contest, whereafter colors are reversed and a new game is started. Players get to keep whatever remaining time they had, with a minimum time normally granted.

However, if such 4-fold repetition is a result of consecutive checks, with no single non-checking move, then that attacking player is at fault and loses. A player could potentially give dozens of consecutive checks, before the repetition becomes illegal.

Repetition is already rare enough, especially at the amateur level. Very few instances of perpetual check repetition occur. Most people who see it as a possibility deviate the 2nd or 3rd time around, or avoid it altogether. I found only a couple actually pertinent videos on Youtube under the search 連続王手の千日手


Adam DeWitt wrote on 2020-07-03 UTC

I have one question about the rules regarding check. A few sources (i.e. the English Wikipedia page on Shogi) mention a rule against perpetual check, namely making perpetual check four times, or something similar. Yet most of the sources I found do not mention such a rule. So is this supposed rule against perpetual check really a thing?


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2018-06-27 UTC

While looking at the Japanese Chinese* Wikipedia article on Shogi, I came across this line:

4. 步兵打入時不能立刻將死對方,這一種犯規稱為打步詰;反之若不會立刻將死則不犯規,此稱為打步將

Google translates this as:

4. Infantry can not be killed immediately when the player enters , this type of foul is called a stumbling ; if not, if he does not immediately die without fouling, this is called a stride .

This appears in the section called "Eat and Enter," which is about restrictions on drops. Despite the bad translations, the first three appear to be 1. You cannot promote a piece while dropping it. 2. You may not drop a piece where it would have no possible legal move. 3. A Pawn may not be dropped on the same file as another Pawn of the same side.

By process of elimination, the 4th might be the rule against checkmating the King with a Pawn drop, but the translation seems to be saying that a Pawn may not be captured immediately after being dropped.

Also, the translation of the 3rd seems to describe a different rule. It says, "Infantry can not be entered in the way of existing (not upgraded) infantry. This kind of foul is called two steps ." Since it would be in the way only if placed in front, this seems to allow the option of dropping a Pawn behind another Pawn in the same file. Maybe it is just a bad translation. The original says, "步兵不能打入於已有己方(未升級的)步兵的一路,這一種犯規稱為同筋二步"

* I just noticed the zh in the URL. That means Chinese.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-03-28 UTC

I guess all anime are like that :)!


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2018-03-27 UTC

I just started watching a new anime about Shogi called The Ryuo's Work is Never Done! If this anime is to be believed, Shogi is much more popular among cute girls than I ever realized


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2017-05-06 UTC

Okay, that's fixed. But there does seem to be a display problem with your game. Since the problem seems isolated to the CSS rendering method, you can fix it by changing the rendering method to GIF, PNG, or JPG. I'll look into the problem with the CSS method.


Evert Jan Karman wrote on 2017-05-06 UTCGood ★★★★

I'm facing a problem: I want to open a game in which it is my move. Immediately I get an error saying I can't drop a pawn on a file where I already have a pawn.

Yes, I do already know that I can't drop a pawn on a file where I already have a pawn. Especially when I haven't even made any move.


Kevin Pacey wrote on 2016-09-19 UTCExcellent ★★★★★

Once each side has a little development completed, Shogi games are action-packed as a rule.

A simplified valuation scheme, as given by Grimbergen (see Shogi wiki entry) is: P=1; L&N=3; S&G=5; B=8; R=9; PB=12; PR=13.


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2016-07-22 UTCExcellent ★★★★★

Shogi is an excellent game. Like Chinese Chess and western Chess, it probably evolved from the Indian Chaturanga. Despite being very different from Chinese Chess and from western Chess, it has too many similarities to them to be coincidence. The main evidence for the direction of evolution is that (1) it is a huge improvement over Chaturanga, and (2) its main differences from Chaturanga are not seen in other regional Chess variants. One of its main differences from other regional variants is its drop rule, which allows players to drop captured pieces back on the board as their own. Despite still having some slow-moving pieces like Chaturanga has, this rule greatly speeds up the game. because a captured piece can (with some restrictions) be placed on any empty space on the board. It also makes the game more dynamic. Instead the game being decided by a single-Pawn difference early in the game, there is a greater chance of material shifting between players, and the outcome depends more on the quality of play throughout the game. Shogi remains superior to Chess variants, such as Chessgi or Crazyhouse, that have added a similar drop rule to Chess. The reason for this is that its piece set is better-designed to work with the drop rule. In general, the drop rule works better with weaker pieces than are found in Chess. For example, the Chess Knight can be a formidable piece to drop, possibly forking several pieces, but the Shogi Knight can move in only two directions. Although it does include one Rook in the game, it has replaced the two corner Rooks with Lances, which move forward only. Also, unlike Chessgi and Crazyhouse, the Rook is the most powerful piece that may be dropped. In those games, you can drop a captured Queen. Shogi is also superior to Shatranji, my own attempt to apply the drop rule to the weaker piece set found in Shatranj. Besides the regular Chess Knight, Shatranji has a Ferz and some Elephants, which are both short-range diagonal moving pieces, instead of the Gold and Silver Generals. The two Generals, while being weaker than the King, both have the ability to change color. Also, like the Lance and Shogi Knight, they are more powerful going forward than backward. Having greater power for forward movement improves the offensive ability of pieces while weakening their defensive capabilities. Giving greater power to several pieces that reach the back three ranks also favors offense over defense. This favoring of offense over defense helps make Shogi more decisive and less drawish. Overall, Shogi is a fun, dynamic, and decisive game that can hold interest throughout the game, it is a huge improvement over Chaturanga, and among regional variants, it is my favorite.


Wyatt Van Dyke wrote on 2016-06-22 UTC

It's appeared in Naruto, too. I don't know too much about it's involvement beyond Shikamaru Nara being really good at it.


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2016-06-18 UTC

The game of Shogi frequently appears in the Japanese anime Ranma ½. Here are a couple images from the first episode featuring Shogi. First, a closeup of the board.

This scene shows the two characters who normally play Shogi together. They are the fathers of the two main characters, Ranma and Akane. The panda is Ranma's father, and Ranma can be seen in the foreground running from Akane's sisters, who want to make him wear girls clothing while there is no hot water to turn him back into a boy.

The following images come from an episode that focused on Shogi:

Finally, here is a shot of the two main characters, Ranma and Akane.


Jeremy Good wrote on 2015-03-14 UTC
"First of all, my credentials. I am the only person in the world to have earned a 2400 rating in both chess and shogi, being an International Master in the former and an Amateur 5 Dan in the latter. I was once thought to be the strongest non-oriental player in the U.S. of Shang-chi (Chinese chess)..." GM Larry Kaufman on Shogi

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-11-24 UTC

I've already posted this Tsumi, but this time I'm posting it as a form with the solution included as one of the fields. I'll now work on adding an option to view the solution.


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-11-21 UTC
When a discussion goes off-topic, you can post a link to a page where it is on-topic and continue the discussion there, perhaps with a link and a mention there of the original context.

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-21 UTC
Sometimes discussions can deviate in another direction. Suggestion: when replying to a person within a category, one could, by notching an alternative, place the comment in an off-topic, or general, category. However, visually, it is placed immediately after the previous comment.
/Mats

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-11-21 UTC

We, the editors, need a way to move off-topic comments to a different page. The comments here should be about Shogi, not how Winboard plays Xiangqi and and other non-Shogi games. If you want to discuss H. G. Muller's version of Winboard, the Fairy-Max page is a more appropriate place for it.


M Winther wrote on 2010-11-21 UTC
WinBoard-4.5.beta.zip: In Seirawan Chess I can introduce an external piece to an empty square, which is against the rules.

Another bug: I cannot introduce an external piece to the corner square at castling.

I played a 3 game match between Fairy-Max and Zillions in Seirawan Chess (approx. 10 sec. per move). Zillions is vastly better and won by 2½-½. In game 2 and 3 Fairy-Max blundered away a piece. This must be a bug in the algorithm. Below is game 3. Notice Zillions's remarkable rook sacrifice at the end.

[Event 'Computer Chess Game']
[Site 'DELL-7B4236477D']
[Date '2010.11.21']
[Round '-']
[White 'Fairy-Max 4.8P']
[Black 'Zillions']
[Result '0-1']
[TimeControl '30/600']
[Variant 'seirawan']
[Annotator '1. +0.24']

1. c3 {+0.24/9 53} c5 2. Nf3/H {+0.28/9 17} d6 3. d4 {+0.23/9 16} cxd4 4.
Nxd4 {-0.10/8 17} f5 5. f4 {+0.01/8 14} Nf6 6. Hf3 {+0.13/7 34} e5 7. fxe5
{+0.83/10 15} dxe5 8. Hxe5 {+0.82/9 15} Ng4 9. Bg5 {+0.87/9 44} Qxg5/H 10.
Hf3 {-2.60/10 14} Qf4 11. g3 {-2.33/8 14} Qh6 12. Na3/E {-2.38/8 19} Ne3
13. Qc1 {-2.42/8 27} Nc6 14. Nac2 {-2.37/9 17} Nxc2+ 15. Nxc2 {-2.43/10 15}
Qd6 16. Hh5+ {-2.24/7 14} g6 17. Hf4 {-2.18/9 14} Ne5 18. Bg2 {-2.14/8 24}
Bg7 19. O-O {-2.03/8 28} O-O/E 20. Rd1 {-2.17/7 15} Hb6+ 21. Ne3
{-2.14/7 16} Nf3+ 22. Bxf3 {-2.27/10 21} Qxf4 23. gxf4 {-2.30/10 15} Hxe3+
24. Qxe3 {-2.27/10 16} Exe3 25. Kf2 {-2.15/9 14} Re8 26. h4 {-2.22/8 15}
Bf6 27. h5 {-2.23/8 14} gxh5 28. a3 {-2.96/8 28} h4 29. Rd6 {-2.82/9 14}
Bg7 30. a4 {-2.88/9 13} Kh8 31. Ed2 {-3.03/10 14} Bf8 32. Rd5 {-3.04/10 15}
Bh6 33. Rd4 {-2.94/10 13} h3 34. Rh1 {-2.42/10 14} Bg7 35. Rd8
{-2.38/10 14} Bf6 36. Rxe8+ {-2.25/12 14} Exe8 37. Rxh3 {-2.25/10 15} Eg7
38. e3 {-2.22/8 14} Be6 39. c4 {-2.16/8 17} Rd8 40. Ec2 {-2.30/9 15} Ec7
41. b3 {-2.31/8 15} Ec5 42. Eb4 {-2.33/8 14} a5 43. Ec2 {-3.55/10 15} Exb3
44. Bd5 {-3.56/9 15} Ed3+ 45. Kf3 {-3.55/10 15} Bxd5+ 46. cxd5
{-3.60/10 16} Exd5 47. Eg2 {-3.74/10 14} Rg8 48. Eh2 {-3.77/10 14} Rg7 49.
Ef2 {-3.82/10 15} Ec3 50. Rh5 {-3.77/10 14} Bd4 51. Ee2 {-3.76/11 14} Rg3+
52. Exg3 {-13.29/13 16} Exe3+ 53. Kf2 {-13.36/13 26} Ee4+ 54. Kg2
{-13.38/13 17} Exf4+ 55. Kh2 {-13.99/13 15} Ef2+ 56. Kg1 {-14.00/12 14}
Ee2+ 57. Kf1 {-14.59/13 15} Exg3+ 58. Ke1 {-18.00/12 17} Exh5 59. Kd2
{-79.95/13 14} Ef4 60. Kc2 {-79.95/13 13} Ef2+ 61. Kb1 {-79.96/19 9} Ed2+
62. Kc1 {-79.97/28 6} Ea2+ 63. Kd1 {-79.98/28 4} Be3 64. Ke1 {-79.99/28 5}
Ec1#
{Xboard adjudication: Checkmate} 0-1

/Mats

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-21 UTC
WinBoard for Xiangqi doesn't allow analysis mode, and I cannot retract moves and make another move, so this software is largely useless as it stands now.
/Mats

Fergus Duniho wrote on 2010-11-21 UTC

Here's the second Tsumi from Fat Bold Cyclop's collection: FBC Tsumi #2


H. G. Muller wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
Xiangqi is so different from any other variant (because of the board zoning and King-facing rule) that I made a dedicated derivative of Fairy-Max for it, called MaxQi. The additions required to implement it were not generally useful. (Similarly, there is a dedicated version for Shatranj applying the baring rule, ShaMax, although that is so similar to the original Fairy-Max that it is generated from the same source code, using a compiler switch.)

So in the 4.5.beta package you should not select Fairy-Max but MaxQi from the startup dialog engine combobox if you want to play Xiangqi. (And HaQiKi D or Elephant Eye if you want a tougher opponent, or do analysis. MaxQi is derived from an older version of Fairy-Max that did not print a full PV yet.) The 4.4 install does use MaxQi.

Qianhong is an extremely weak (non-searching) AI. There are Qianhong plugins that are tougher. VSCCP is the next weakest, and might stil lose to Zillions too. But Elephant Eye is also available as a Qianhong Plugin.(Or rather, there exists a UCCI2QH adapter, from which I actually derived the UCCI2WB adapter.) For an overview of Xiangqi engines that you could run under WinBoard, see http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/XQ.html and links therein.

I asked on the Seirawan website if it was patented, or if it was allowed to support it in WinBoard. Bruce Harper answered me 'Go ahead, the more exposure we get, the better'.

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
I noted that Seirawan Chess is implemented in the latest version. If it's patented then it could mean trouble.
/Mats

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
Ok, I downloaded version 4.4 instead, then it works.
/Mats

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
I get 'Variant Xiangqi not supported by Fairy-Max 4.8P'
/Mats

M Winther wrote on 2010-11-20 UTC
How nice. I am surprised at the scarcity of good Xiangqi programs, in view of the fact that it's the most popular game in the world. I downloaded Stoneman, but it could not take back moves, due to some bug. I tested a cheaper version, but it played the same theoretical moves all the time. It seems the only good alternative is XieXie, but it has no analysis window. I tested my own Zillions implementation against freeware QianHong, but Zillions won. I also tested the freeware HiddenLynx, but Zillions won easily. I'll have a look at WinBoard. 
/Mats

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