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Wide Nightrider Chess. Chess on a 12x10 board with Nightriders, Champions and fast castling rules.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Greg Strong wrote on 2018-04-07 UTC

No, actually that is the Camel value, I just didn't mean to list it.  I was putting together the values for Janus Kamil Chess at the same time (also 12x10) so that's how it slipped in.

Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-04-07 UTC

Interesting. Instead of Camel, did you mean the fighting value of a king? The Camel is not a piece type included in this variant.

Greg Strong wrote on 2018-04-07 UTC

Here are my estimates of the piece values:


Piece Midgame Value Endgame Value
Pawn 1.00 1.25
Bishop 3.50 4.00
Knight-Ferz 4.50 4.50
Champion 4.50 4.50
Rook 5.50 6.50
Nightrider 6.50 8.00
Queen 10.50 12.00

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-04-07 UTC

Actually the betza mobility is what I had in mind :)! But I had not took the time to calculate.

Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-04-07 UTC

I changed the checkering pattern of the settings file as you suggested, Greg.

Regarding the value of the champion on 12x10 vs. that of the bishop, my way of estimating it gives some weight to larger board size affecting long range pieces well, while short range pieces not so well. As always, people are naturally free to feel skeptical of my (or other people's) assigned values to piece types, which in my case I write that they are only tentative estimates (derived often from unproven formulae of mine and/or other people's)..

Greg Strong wrote on 2018-04-07 UTC

The Game Courier preset has been posted.  Might I suggest, though, that you use 3 square colors.  This makes the knightrider moves much easier to visualize.  (Use "checker pattern" of "10.21." - this will alternate between the first and third colors for the dark squares.)

Regarding Champion vs. Bishop - on 12x10 the Bishop has a Betza mobility of 5.07 while the Champion is at 6.70.  These are the values when the board is at 30% occupancy - which seems to work well for Chess, but Chess starts out at a board density of 50%.  Wide Nightrider starts with a densite of 40%, so calculating the mobility at 20% may be more appropriate.  This yields 5.80 for the Bishop, the Champion still at 6.70.  The density of pices on the board needs to get down to 8% before the mobility of the Bishop equals that of the Champion, and even then the Bishop is still colorbound.  So I think there is no doubt that the Champion is stronger.

Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-04-07 UTC

Note to CVP editor(s):

I've now just finished submitting a preset for this variant.

Kevin Pacey wrote on 2018-04-06 UTC

You're welcome. I've fixed the spelling, I think.

An official comment I saw on the Omega Chess commercial page assessing the strength of the B and CH on its 10x10 board (with 4 extra corner cells, too) was that B=4, CH=4 but it was recommended not to trade B for CH (at least before endgame?). Though I take B=4 or more Pawns always with a grain of salt, even for on such a large board size, the comment fits in with my tentative values as far as having the CH estimated as less than 4, and not quite worth a B, on the larger 12x10 board size of Wide Nightrider Chess, where a B would if anything improve more than the CH in value.

As a crude rule of thumb for chess [variants] in general, at least when cleanly ahead, e.g. a pawn, for no compensation, a FIDE chess master once advised me to normally just trade piece for same piece type, rather than getting into a material imbalance, if merely by numerical point value it seemed a good idea, as we don't know enough about how such imbalances work out in practice always, but a clear pawn ahead is a clear pawn ahead.

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-04-06 UTC

Probably the champion is stronger than a bishop.

Aurelian Florea wrote on 2018-04-06 UTC

Thanks for mentioning my thoughts. Also you have misspelled my name :)!

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