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Simple Mideast Chess. Game with simple rules, no promotion, no nonstandard move or capture, no asymetric pieces, and no check, checkmate or stalemate.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on 2021-11-17 UTC

Rule 3 is also not a rule, but a consequence of rule 2. There also seems to be a problem with draw rule 3, because it could be hard to prove something is forcible. The 'insufficient mating material' rule in FIDE is based on existence of help mates, not of forcible mates. Of course mate doesn't end the game here, and letting your king be captured is possible in any material combination. With the rule as stated here there could easily be disputes in late end-games whether the advantage of a player is large enough to force king capture. (The player that is behind might prefer to claim a draw over actually defending it, when defense is very difficult.) I suggest either to replace the rule by that of FIDE, phrased as that no position can be reached from which capture of the king can be forced in a single move. Either that, or provide an exhaustive list of piece combinations that count as 'material draw'.

Also note there seem to be no provisions for draw by repetition or number of reversible moves.


Bn Em wrote on 2021-11-17 UTC

Afaict, the page hasn't yet been accepted, and the spelling/grammar issues that Fergus raised persist which means it's still unlikely to be published as‐is.

Besides the issues already mentioned (‘rules’ 4 and 5 would be better as notes, if deemed necessary at all), I'd note that it doesn't seem necessary to separate out win/draw rules from the rest, and that the layout of the Setup section takes up far too much space imo (quadruple‐spacing? Really?) to convey information that could be given much more concisely by including a piece image next to each piece's name in the following section. The latter suggestion might even help alleviate the naming‐confusion issue a little (which, whilst it doesn't bother me as much personally (after all, irl players can call the pieces whatever they want), would still be nice to have an explanation for).

Also, below the diagram in the Setup section, the game is still referred to by the name Grand Chess


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-11-17 UTCPoor ★

This page has many problems.

Rules 4, 5 are not rules, they are more advices.

The drop rule does not say if the captured pieces change their color.

Finally, why changing the names of all pieces or giving well established names to different moves ? It might be confusing for some players.


Aurelian Florea wrote on 2021-11-16 UTC

The betza for cannon should be ADGH


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-16 UTC

I believe this page to now be ready for publication.


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-06 UTC

English isn't my mother language. I know some grammar and spelling. My mother language have grammar very closed to Chinese language. (But word and spelling are different, but how to make new words like Chinese language and we have a lot of words that loans from Chinese language, where some words are loan and use by don't know they are loan words, if don't be the linguist.) So sometimes it very hard to learn some grammar of English.


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2021-11-06 UTC

Grammar and spelling still need to be fixed.


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2021-11-06 UTC

I have updated the ItemID of this game in the database, and I have replaced the /membergraphics/MS-grand-chess/ directory with /membergraphics/MS-simple-mideast-chess/. I also updated the description.


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-05 UTC

I believe this page to now be ready for publication.


Bn Em wrote on 2021-11-04 UTC

stalemate is virtually non-existent

Given that there are no asymmetric pieces, I wouldn't be surprised if it were impossible to even construct a stalemate position (any piece on the outside of a cluster could simply move away). Meaning that King capture is in this case almost completely equivalent to conventional rules with Stalemate a win; the only remaining difference being that here mutual checks (with the exception of undefended kings checking each other ofc) would be legal, unlike in most games with checking rules.

I'm quite a fan of legal counter‐checking myself, though ofc I rarely get a chance to play chess that way as it's foreign to most people. Istr it was explicitly given a name as a Modest Variant but I can't seem to find that anywhere; oþoh games where mutual check is established in the setup position but may not be mutually resolved(!), such as Prisoner's Escape or (Phase 1 of) Frolov's All‐round King (as well as Parton's Contramatic Chess which has, as George Duke pointed out, two mutually‐checked Anti‐kings) have cropped up occasionally.


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-04 UTC

In some endgame, capture instead of checkmate or stalemate. The disadvantage side is closed to loss, then advantage side can't attack in some position because it can become draw such as the attack side attack the king, if in checkmate rule the general must withdraw from attack or capture attack pieces or block immediately, but the disadvantage side can play to draw by move some pieces to fork opponent general and opponent attack pieces in same time, this means the advantage side must be carefully to attack when the general can check from the opponent same. In game wazir and ferz have value closed to FIDE pawn but I think if compare to FIDE pawn it could be 1.2-1.3, more than FIDE pawn a little.


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-04 UTC

I already play it. The main tactics in game is also fork, and with pieces such as camel, girrafe and cannon can attack very well in big board because it can attack up to 3 squares and can fork as well when have a better position such as center or 3rd or 8th rank and can used force opponent to withdraw to defence minor pieces in game. The most valuable pieces in game is tower, but it good to used it to trade with 2 of camels, giraffes of elephants (because in game that 3 pieces are having closed value). The cannon is valuable to attack in midgame because it can fork easiest in game with 16 squares can't blocked, In closed game it more value than rook, and not good to trade it with rook although in endgame. If classification pieces by value to 3 class, it could be, minor pieces have sword, pike, archer and horse, medium pieces have camel, girrafe and elephant, major pieces have chariot, cannon and tower.


H. G. Muller wrote on 2021-11-04 UTC

King capture instead of checkmate as a winning condition has virtually no effect on gameplay at all. It just means that stalemate is virtually non-existent.

Ferz and Wazir are close in value to the FIDE pawn. The main issue that could make the game drawish is that there is no promotion.


Fergus Duniho wrote on 2021-11-04 UTC

Considering that this game has no Pawns and no checkmate, its gameplay will be very different from Chess. So, I must ask if you have played this game and tested whether this game actually has good gameplay.


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-04 UTC

I'm don't sure to call it, but i know this name (Grand Chess) is already taken, but i don't have new name to call it, I think it is will be temporary name of this board until it has better name. You can offer the name of this board, if name is look good I will rename (If I have better name in the future, I will rename).


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-04 UTC

Thanks for advice. I change the name of all pieces to represent the war in pre-modern era, All pieces are acorrding to the soldier in pre-modern (although some name is not represent soldier such as giraffe).


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on 2021-11-03 UTC

This page is full of typos, it is very difficult to read.

In addition and even if English is not my mother tongue and I'm making a lot of faults myself, I think that the English there is really too poor. At this point I found the text difficult to understand.

Also if I may, I would suggest to the author to explain why he had to change the name of all pieces. Is there any reason for that?


H. G. Muller wrote on 2021-11-03 UTC

Well, the name Grand Chess is already taken, so you would have to call it something different.


Siwakorn Songrag wrote on 2021-11-03 UTC
This is chess that has simplest rules that I maked, and my favorite.

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