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Seireigi. Variant of standard Shogi with promotable Gold Generals, as well as more varied and animalistic promotions. (9x9, Cells: 81) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
🔔Notification on Wed, Apr 24 06:12 PM UTC:

The author, A. M. DeWitt, has updated this page.


François Houdebert wrote on Thu, Jan 25 07:41 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 06:30 PM:

This has now been corrected.

Thanks for your vigilance.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, Jan 25 06:30 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 05:20 PM:

Speaking of rules, I took a look at your rules for Seireigi, and noticed that the image for the Great Elephant's move diagram is not lined up with with the piece's actual move. The current image shows a (disconnected) dot two spaces ahead of the piece, and no backwards diagonal step. There should be a dot on all spaces adjacent spaces except the one directly behind the piece, along with the two ranging moves.

The Jocly implementation has the correct move.


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Jan 25 06:08 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 05:20 PM:

Yep, I did implement Kyoto Shogi in my engine CrazyWa. (Which is a multivariant engine especially for games with piece drops.) When I have the opportunity I will copy its piece-square tables for use in the Jocly implementation.


François Houdebert wrote on Thu, Jan 25 05:20 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 04:42 PM:

There's everything in the model eventually to set the number of pawn per column.

The rule should be OK now. Thanks for the tests.

Regarding the evaluation function, the suggestion was for HGM, which seems to have a great deal of experience in programming shogis.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, Jan 25 04:42 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 04:33 PM:

The Kyoto Jocly implementation is definitely better.

There are no restrictions on drops in Kyoto Shogi, other than that the square must be empty. (So no, there is no one Pawn per column rule in this game.)

Fortunately, all you need to do to fix this is force captured Knights to change to Golds, force Lances to change to Tokins, and force Pawns to change to Rooks.

Unfortunately, I have no experience programming games in Jocly, so I am unable to add an evaluation function.


François Houdebert wrote on Thu, Jan 25 04:33 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 04:07 PM:

At the moment the Kyoto Shogi is in reserve on my github shogivars branch.

I don't think I'll be able to add the evaluation function on my own. If you have the time, the inclination and if you think this variant could be of interest to jocly, help would be welcome to finalize it.

By the way is there a Pawn Limit > 1 on a column for this variant?


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Jan 25 04:07 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 03:57 PM:

To play reasonably, Kyoto Shogi would probably need dedicated evaluation. Piece values are not the dominant evaluation term, not even if you average those of the alternating types. Most important is (future) mobility, as some pieces have irreversible moves, and are doomed to get stuck. Fourth-rank Knights are worse than useless; they form an indestructable shelter for the opponent's King, and force you to dedicate a piece for protecting them from capture by that King. Having a useless piece, or even a piece that is a liability, is still better than giving the opponent an extra piece in hand...


François Houdebert wrote on Thu, Jan 25 03:57 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 03:14 PM:

I've lifted the restrictions on lance and horse. It should be better now.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, Jan 25 03:14 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 10:41 AM:

The Kyoto Shogi model looks good, except for one mistake. There are no restrictions on drops in Kyoto Shogi, except that the drop square must be empty.


François Houdebert wrote on Thu, Jan 25 10:41 AM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 10:23 AM:

I also have a draft of kyoto shogi available on my home page.

I don't yet know whether it complies perfectly with the rules. It's also based on the shogi model currently being integrated into jocly.


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Jan 25 10:23 AM UTC:

To make a new Jocly game available on the site here, you would have to upload its *-model.js, *-view.js and *-config.js in the game library (the dist/browser/games/chessbase that is created after running gulp for building) to /play/jocly/dist/browser/games/chessbase/ on CVP. The model and view files from the source code won't do; the building process concatenates these with the base-model and view, and other sub-models that are specified in index.js.

You then also have to add a line for the game in /play/jocly/dist/browser/jocly-allgames.js to make it appear in the list of 'other Jocly games'. If you want it to be displayed together with a thumbnail there, you should also upload that to where the allgames line says it is. If the game uses dedicated resources, such as new pieces, these files would have to be uploaded too.

The whole effort of this will only become visible if both your browser's cache and the CloudFlare cache have flushed out the old allgames file. You can do the first thing yourself, but the normal way of pressing Shift while loading the Jocly page doesn't work; you have to explicitly view the allgames file yourself, and reload that without caching. And over CloudFlare users have no control at all. You'd have to wait a few weeks, or ask Fergus.


François Houdebert wrote on Thu, Jan 25 06:56 AM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 02:18 AM:

For integration on the chessvariant site, it's probably best to wait until the work on integrating shogis into jocly has progressed. HG Muller will be able to do it easily, but it may be a bit early for us since it might change.
Otherwise, for hosting on a personnal site, the following zip contains everything you need

It could be further improved by setting a relative value to the pieces.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, Jan 25 02:18 AM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from Wed Jan 24 09:05 PM:

Thank you.

I was thinking about porting your Jocly implementation of Seireigi over to this site. I looked at your site's Jocly files and saw a bunch of files beginning with "seireigi-shogi" in the directory "https://biscandine.fr/variantes/shogi/dist/browser/games/chessbase/". Are these the only files that I need if I want to port the implementation, or is there something else that I am missing?

Edit: I have added a link to the implementation on your site for now.


François Houdebert wrote on Wed, Jan 24 09:05 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 03:39 PM:

Now the pieces that get dropped into the promotion zone should no longer be able to promote.


François Houdebert wrote on Wed, Jan 24 05:16 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 03:39 PM:

Player B's Heavenly Horse move should be fixed now.

Promotion improvements still to be made...


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Wed, Jan 24 03:39 PM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 11:13 AM:

The Jocly implementation has two mistakes in it. Please fix these.

  1. Player B's Heavenly Horse (promoted Knight) has its jumping moves reversed (the stepping moves are fine).
  2. Pieces that get dropped into the promotion zone are able to promote, which shouldn't be possible.

As for the Kanji, the current implementation works fine, but may be a problem if you want to implement the larger Seireigi variants in Jocly as well.

Otherwise, stellar implementation.


François Houdebert wrote on Wed, Jan 24 11:13 AM UTC:

I'd like to point out that I've made a jocly implementation of Seireigi shogi for my own use and also to better understand the "drop model" made by HG Muller in his shogi for jocly.

I hope it conforms to the rules. Note, however, that there's undoubtedly still a lot of room for improvement, particularly as regards kanji graphics.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Thu, Nov 30, 2023 07:28 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 07:01 PM:

I am honored. :)


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, Nov 30, 2023 07:01 PM UTC:

I have added Bob Greenwade's Seireigi piece images to the options for available graphics for the Interactive Diagrams.

Edit: I am also doing this for the other games in the Seireigi family.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, Sep 21, 2023 02:26 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 02:11 AM:

To be fair, sometimes I think so deeply about things that I end up overthinking them. I think I will keep the new version of the Great Leopard (promoted Copper) for the larger variants, despite its similarities to the Free Tiger. Both are distinct enough that players shouldn't have too much difficulty telling them apart, especially since the new versions have a Great Leopard appearing in the inital setup (promoting to Flying Ox).


Bob Greenwade wrote on Thu, Sep 21, 2023 02:11 AM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 12:29 AM:

Well, it's distinctive enough for me, but then again I'm of a mind that even a slight difference makes something new.

If it really worries you, then perhaps you can take away one or more of the HH's forward steps.


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Thu, Sep 21, 2023 12:29 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Tue Sep 19 09:09 PM:

And now I'm really liking that Heavenly Horse... ;)

It's definitely better, and it's unique 2-step leaps also pay homage to the Knight's uniqueness among standard Shogi pieces.

The only problem is, this now throws off the carefully constructed balance of piece moves in Chu Seireigi and Dai Seireigi, as all three are in the same family. I have a rule for myself that if a piece appears in multiple games within the same family, it's move must be consistent across all games within that family. The main problem is that the original promoted Copper General (Great Leopard) could only leap, and was very similar to the current Heavenly Horse (it had a sideways 2-step leap instead of a backward Knight leap). I do have a version where it slides sideways or steps one square directly backward or diagonally forward, but I am worried that this is too similar to the Free Tiger.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Tue, Sep 19, 2023 09:09 PM UTC in reply to A. M. DeWitt from 01:14 PM:

And now I'm really liking that Heavenly Horse... ;)


💡📝A. M. DeWitt wrote on Tue, Sep 19, 2023 01:14 PM UTC:

I have changed the Heavenly Horse's move to so that it is a bit stronger, as I thought it was too similar to the Tokin's move.

I have also changed the Running Wolf so that it slides vertically, rather than just straight forward.

Chu Seireigi and Dai Seireigi are temporarily offline, as I am working on a new version of these two games.


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