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Janggi - 장기 - Korean Chess. The variant of chess played in Korea. (9x10, Cells: 90) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
H. G. Muller wrote on Wed, Mar 6 07:28 AM UTC in reply to Kevin Pacey from 02:55 AM:

An N-move rule is in general a good thing to have, but so is a clock, and historic rules usually don't specify anything about that either. There do exist variants without irreversible moves, though, (e.g. Shogi), and there it becomes very difficult to formulate a sensible rule for terminating no-progress games. Even in Chess the criterion is not irreversibility, but progress. (Castling does not reset the count.) Pawn advance can be seen as progress towards promotion, but if a promoting piece does not move irreversibly, moving it back and forth obviously would not. Variants that forbid perpetual chasing can often have very long stretches of checks without repeating, (which would be allowed) with which they could delay the loss. In combination with an N-move rule with any reasonable N this would make the ban on perpetual checking ineffective. And games that are theoretical wins could take thousands of moves to reach it, because every move that progresses towards a promotion is followed by some 100 checks before the losing side runs out of non-repeating checks.

A rule that I proposed to solve this was to limit the number of consecutive checks to, say, 3, unless you end the sequence with a capture. Then you can still make such sequences when they serve a purpose, but the delay you can achieve with the checks is limited. And checks+evasions can then be discounted for the N-move rule, without the total number of moves getting unacceptably high.

An alternative would be that the player that refuses a draw after a reasonable number of moves will lose when he does not manage to win within some unreasonably large number of moves. Then being forced to play the unreasonably large number of moves by a stubborn opponent who does not want to recognize the game-theoretical outcome is at least rewarded.


Kevin Pacey wrote on Wed, Mar 6 02:55 AM UTC:

@ H.G. (and others): speaking of a general 50 move rule, I now recall seeing a kind of it once mentioned online somewhere as being in use for Korean Chess (maybe just in tournaments for it??) - I'm surprised it's not always given as a standard rule for Korean Chess (such as on the CVP site Rules Page for that).

One time I played a game of it, for example, and could not figure out how a R plus King could possibly force checkmate vs. a lone Korean Chess King, with the Palace K movement rules that are used (and players being allowed to pass sometimes), but the rules given on CVP for that game do not seem to exclude someone with the extra rook (or even the defender) just playing on and on, making moves forever. Even if I'm wrong about a R+K not being a winning edge, a player could play on and on with a lesser material edge...

[edit: looking at a rules enforcing Korean Chess preset (done years ago by Fergus) in Edit Mode, there doesn't appear to be a claiming of a 50 move rule there, either.]

[edit2: Here's one place where the sort of 50 move rule for Korean chess is given - after 50 moves without mate, counting the piece values is then used to determine the result:]

https://www.pychess.org/variants/janggi


johnnymam wrote on Sat, Jan 20 06:48 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from Thu Oct 8 2020 01:53 PM:

This comment on Bikjang seems to be in contradiction to how Winboard plays Janggi using the stockfish engine. In particular, I have seen several checkmates that occurred in that program, that resulted from this scenario:

A general is checked by the opposing side. The general is then forced to capture the checking piece. It so happens that by capturing the checking pieces, the general ends up facing the opposing general along an unblocked file. At this point, the program declares that this general is now checkmated.

It seems that the Winboard Janggi engine is following a rule such that "if a general is in check, and the only way for the general to escape the check is to capture that checking piece in such a way as to end up facing the opposing general on an open file, then that general that evaded check this way becomes checkmated." Here, Bikjang in the program seems to be a check situation, and it results in checkmate if a general trying to escape check ends up forced to be in a bikjang situation.

Not sure why the engine does this, since it seems to go against the rules. advice?


Jeyoon Jung wrote on Sat, Nov 6, 2021 04:58 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from Sun Oct 31 09:06 PM:

Found that you can submit other things as Game Pages and write a comment to the editor. Sorry for bothering you.


🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Oct 31, 2021 09:06 PM UTC in reply to Jeyoon Jung from 08:59 AM:

One more thing. I am a relatively new person to the CVP, and I believe I saw some articles detailing some strategies in oriental games. However, I cannot find an option to do that.

To do what?


Jeyoon Jung wrote on Sun, Oct 31, 2021 08:59 AM UTC:

I am a native Korean, and so far it seems that people seem to disagree about the rules. The Fairy Stockfish one is mostly correct:

Bikjang is only a draw offer: it is not a check as in Xiangqi. Draw offers can be declined and has no effect on later play. Turn passing is always allowed, so no zugzwang. In official tournaments hosted by the Janggi counterpart of FIDE, the 1.5 point tiebreaker is always applied.

Also a note on the etymology of the word "Bikjang": "Bikjang" seems to have come from the word "Bi-Jang"(pronounced bee-jang) which is the pronunciation of the word "flying generals" in Korean. So yes, the Bikjang rule comes from Xiangqi, but it was changed to a draw offer with other rules as well.

One more thing. I am a relatively new person to the CVP, and I believe I saw some articles detailing some strategies in oriental games. However, I cannot find an option to do that. I'm sorry if this is an inappropriate place to post this, but can anyone tell me how to do so?


H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Oct 8, 2020 01:53 PM UTC:

Isn't it a bit strange that we rely on (old and disagreeing) western sources, while in this age of the internet it should be easy to get feedback directly from Korean players? Discussing disagreements between Gollon, Murray and Pritchard might be interesting in an article reviewing their books, but mistakes they might have made do not deserve to be mentioned in a rule description of the game. I never mention the 'Murray Lion' in the Chu Shogi article...

The Fairy-Stockfish developer has included Janggi in his engine now, and claims to have received a lot of feedback during its implementation from Korean amateur and pro Janggi players. I believe him. Which means I consider the current rule implementation in Stockfish to be reliable. Notable point in this are:

  • Turn passing is always unconditionally allowed, not just when it is forced.
  • The Bikjang rule for King facing is not applied in every tournament. If it is not, King facing is legal.
  • If it is, but is declined, it has (indeed) no effect on the possibility to win later for either player.
  • The point-counting tie breaker is not applied in every tournament.

So there are actually four sub-variants, bepending on application of Bikjang and point-counting rule.

It also seems wrong to describe Bikjang as "the Generals checking each other". Check is an imminent loss because of King capture. There is neither loss or King capture here, just a draw offer that can be accepted or declined. The whole idea that King facing is a check seems to be contamination by Xiangqi concepts.


🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, Jul 27, 2018 11:18 PM UTC:

I have just uploaded a major update to this page. While there is still more work to do on it, it seems to be in a mature enough state to replace the previous page.


🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Jul 26, 2018 06:03 PM UTC:

I just compared this page with Roleigh Martin's article, highlighting any text I found to be the same. It looks like Martin is the principle author of this page, despite his distribution policy that his article should not be altered. I have a new version of this page in the works, which I'll replace this page with when it is in a more finished state.


🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Jul 26, 2018 12:17 AM UTC:

While it is plausible that Koreans, or in this case Sillans, originally played the game with Chinese equipment, Hwarang was not a drama that made any effort to be historically accurate. Using a board with a river might have just been an oversight in the production of the show.


Aurelian Florea wrote on Wed, Mar 28, 2018 09:19 AM UTC:
Piece Points
chariots 13
cannons 7
horses 5
elephants 3
guards 3
soldiers 2

These are the values given on wikipedia for the piece values in this game. To me the cannon seems way overrated here. For obvious reasons it should be weaker than it's xiangqi counterpart. In this gmae as I see things the horse should worth a cannon+soldier, maybe a bit less but not the other way around. Maybe this elephant is on par with the Jangg cannon. Am i missing something? Or can I  find more reliable data?


Kevin Pacey wrote on Thu, Mar 1, 2018 08:23 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

There's a reason this regional game has lasted for so long. Perhaps it's even a Classic by CVP standards.


bukovski wrote on Tue, Jan 30, 2018 09:12 PM UTC:

I notice that the board has a river like xiangqi.  Would I be correct to think that janggi had this board feature in the past but developed a board without it, or is this another anachronism (or mistake)?  These are nice images that you posted, so thank you.


🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Jan 30, 2018 12:59 AM UTC:

Here are a couple images of Janggi being played in the Korean historical drama Hwarang, which takes place in ancient Silla around 1500 years ago. This does not mean the game is actually that old. Characters in this drama can also be seen playing soccer. The woman is the queen dowager, who is serving as regent for her son, who is the king. The man is in charge of forming the Hwarang organization.


Diego M. wrote on Thu, Aug 17, 2017 12:23 AM UTC:

How do I swap the knight and elephan at the beginning of the game?


Shi Ji wrote on Wed, Oct 26, 2016 02:56 AM UTC:

By intuition, the promotion of soldier can affect the strategies of the game drastically. Soldiers would not be sacrificed easily, and exchange of chariots or horses would be played more positively.

Also by intuition, I think the move order gives too much advantage to Chu (the green or blue) who make her setup according to Han's setup and move first.


📝Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Sat, Nov 3, 2012 08:29 AM UTC:
A simple Google traduction of the page given by Yu Ren Dong about promotion in Janggi played in Tokyo gives the following: Experimental implementation 2005/5/13 ~ Local rules for new Tokyo branch (in addition to the existing Official Rules) Gist 1) I am going to introduce, new local rules Tokyo branch is not the official rules of the association headquarters. As a prerequisite, the existing official rules remains the same, for the sake of eventual draw reduction, it is an additional rule was devised, innovation. By performing at a regular meeting of the Tokyo branch on a trial basis, repeated cases of a game to some extent, be reported to the headquarters Association of Seoul those results, new rules, the model and the possibility of one of the rules decrease the eventual draw in a game Changi We will. Please send you should understand the following explanation of the new rules, such as Comments carefree you. I would like to incorporate the views of everybody, we will become even better rule, and it should be established as well as the original rules, Tokyo Branch. I think it is clear enough that this is just an experimentation without any "official" character.

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Thu, Oct 25, 2012 04:33 PM UTC:

Here are a couple pictures of Janggi being played in the Korean drama God of War:

The series takes place in the 1200's during the lifetime of Ghenghis Kahn. I have been watching Korean historical dramas in chronological order, and this is the earliest setting I have seen Janggi appear in. Despite the subtitle in the first image, it is not a checkmate just yet. Red subsequently moved the piece in the top corner of his palace as an Elephant, and Blue made another move. In the second picture, Blue has just moved his Horse at the beginning of the game.


Yu Ren Dong wrote on Mon, Oct 3, 2011 02:27 PM UTC:
Hello Fergus Duniho. 

Please e-mail to Mr. Song(宋). He is  Korean in Japan.

[email protected]

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Sun, Oct 2, 2011 05:37 PM UTC:
I can't read Japanese, but I saw some diagrams that showed Pawn promotions. Since this comes from Japan, not Korea, and this is the first time I've heard of this rule, I'm going to assume it's a Japanese amendment to the rules and not part of the official Korean rules. If you know that Koreans also play by this rule, please report what you know about it.

Yu Ren Dong wrote on Sat, Oct 1, 2011 03:24 AM UTC:
In Changgi Association Tokyo Branch Rules, A Pawn must promote on reaching the 10th rank. A Pawn can promote only to a friendly piece (except for Guards
) that has been captured, and for which it is exchanged. 

Please See

http://www.h2.dion.ne.jp/~janggi/tokyo%20new%20local%20rule.html

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Dec 8, 2010 01:13 AM UTC:

Here's a Korean Chess problem made from a game I played with Game Courier. I made this with Game Courier's new ability to turn positions in games into fairy chess problems.


Roleigh Martin wrote on Thu, Feb 25, 2010 04:19 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Please change link to Roleigh Martin's rule's page to here:
http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/afi/koreanch.htm

The link you have is dead.  (the timelesseye link).

Jose Carrillo wrote on Tue, Oct 6, 2009 03:39 AM UTC:
>>How to procure the nice pieces shown on Jose Carillo's photograph on
>>this comment page? Thanks.

Jean-Louis Cazaux,

My pieces just come from a regular plastic set of chess pieces.

The Elephants are Seirawan Elephants.

For the Cannons, I cut off the top portion of the Rooks from a 2nd set (I kept the top of the Rooks to glue on to Knights to make Chancellors).

Finally I drilled holes on the headless Rooks to make them look like Cannons.

Cheers,
Jose

Jose Carrillo wrote on Tue, Oct 6, 2009 03:14 AM UTC:
You are right Nicholas.

I tested the swap command and it was banned. Fergus can you fix it? Thanks.

Meanwhile, this preset for Korean Chess:
/play/pbm/play.php?game%3DKorean+Chess%26settings%3Dplain

Doesn't enforce any rules, and will allow to swap the pieces.

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