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GO DeepMind v. Lee at Seoul[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
George Duke wrote on Tue, Mar 8, 2016 05:51 PM UTC:
The error in 'Guardian' article is that OrthoChess has 20 possible first moves not 28. Even 1920s Capablanca Chess on ten-wide has 26 only, but some CVs would have a 28 of typical range from low 20 to great 40. <p> <a href="http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/8/11178462/google-deepmind-go-challenge-ai-vs-lee-sedol">Go_Match</a>. <p>Go on accepted 19x19 has one type of piece and is not considered a CV. Such as Battle Chieftain (10x11) has one type of piece and is considered a CV.<p> Besides being prime Go's '19' has significance geometrical, <a href="http://vortexmaps.com/nineteen.php">Nineteen</a>.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Mar 8, 2016 07:06 PM UTC:

George Duke writes:

The error in 'Guardian' article is that OrthoChess has 20 possible first moves not 28.

First, here is what the article actually says:

Hassabis notes that while chess has an average of around 20 possible moves for a given position, Go gives the player about ten times as many options, resulting in a massively higher branching factor that is far harder for any AI to deal with.

This is not about the number of possible first moves but about the average number of moves for a given position. This seems incorrect, because as pieces are developed in Chess, the number of possible moves rapidly increases from 20.

Second, OrthoChess does have 20 possible first moves. These are 8 one-space Pawn moves, 8 double Pawn moves, and 4 Knight moves.


George Duke wrote on Tue, Mar 8, 2016 07:10 PM UTC:
It's the 'Guardian' article that has the error, linked at "Computer Resistant" thread. The error is still here: <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/07/go-board-game-google-alphago-lee-se-dol">28_Moves?</a>. Not 28 but mere 20 moves to open.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Tue, Mar 8, 2016 07:16 PM UTC:

Okay, the article you linked to this time does have that error. It says,

The first move of a game of chess offers 28 possibilities;

You linked to a different article in your previous comment.


George Duke wrote on Tue, Mar 8, 2016 07:41 PM UTC:
Thanks Fergus.  It's pretty interesting for us and different that they call
a "game" a match.  So there are five matches in the next week, as one
contest, and will put about one different news source to
announce each result. Kasparov played Shogi and Makruk, and Shogi masters
transfer well to OrthoChess, but have not heard that Go skill helps Chess
or CVs particularly but it seems reasonable.  Let's say I would not want to
play Lee at Chess either. Then too AlphaGo is the program or British "programme" so it's Lee Se-dol versus AlphaGo, like it was Kasparov versus Deep Blue. And articles say that the added feature of policy network (and all that programming) to value network may make AlphaGo stronger than Lee realizes.

🕸Fergus Duniho wrote on Wed, Mar 9, 2016 01:05 AM UTC:
I have been looking for a word besides game that would mean game in the
sense of a specific game played between two people. Currently, the word
game does double-duty, referring to a particular set of rules, as in the
game of Chess, or to individual games played between people, as in Bobby
Fischer's "60 Memorable Games", which are all Chess. I don't think match
quite does it, because a match can include a plural number of games played
between two people.

(zzo38) A. Black wrote on Wed, Mar 9, 2016 07:33 AM UTC:
I would think "duel"

George Duke wrote on Wed, Mar 9, 2016 11:55 PM UTC:
Round_One. If anyone sees a result first, feel free to post it here by any suitable format or annotation.

George Duke wrote on Thu, Mar 10, 2016 11:54 PM UTC:
<a href="https://gogameguru.com/alphago-2/">AlphaaGo2-0</a>. Obviously many a CV would be lots harder for Computers than Go. Seriously all that is needed is to bring some flexibility to Rules, or indeterminacy like Kriegspiel.

George Duke wrote on Tue, Sep 20, 2016 09:15 PM UTC:

Loss

Lee Se-dol said beforehand he was out to save humanity. It was the same expression Kasparov used in 1997. Apparently it was just so much posturing or advertising or propaganda, because they don't say after each of these fiascos that humanity lost, just that Computer won.


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