Greg Strong wrote on Fri, Jan 24, 2020 02:23 AM UTC:
I also do not subscribe to formula. I've been here long enough to watch at least a half-dozen well-thought-out systems be disproven. The killer is that, not only has it not worked for pieces (e.g., the Archbishop is significantly stronger than anticipated), but also because it depends on the entire army (e.g., the individual pieces of the Nutty Knights aren't that strong, but together, they are totally overpowering.)
Regarding Griffon vs. Queen. I am firmly in the camp that the Queen is better. The case has been made that the larger board favors the Griffon - which is true to a point - but the difference is microscopic. The Griffon suffers more in the corner or the edge, especially if blocked at the key points. The larger the board, the fewer squares are edges/corners. But the difference is small and the Queen and Griffon are active, attacking pieces that aren't likely to be there anyway. Far more important is the fact that, while the Griffon has 8 rays, they emerge from 4 choke points where they can be blocked. This limits mobility measurably. Additionally, the Queen can slide along all 8 rays while continuing to attack the ray. The Griffon cannot do this at all. If it attacks even files, and makes a file-move, it now attacks odd files. Same with ranks. The result is that the Queen can triangulate - if it wants to attack a square, and is threatened and forced to move, it has several options of other squares to relocate to while still attacking the desired square. The Griffon has a much harder time with this - for squares outside short range there is no option at all. Also, it has problems with asymmetry. One Griffon can attack another and the other may not be able to attack back because they follow different paths. These sorts of anomolies do weaken peaces to some extent. FInally, a Queen cannot be attacked by a King because it attacks all adjacent squares. The Griffon can be approached.
All that said, the Griffon has some neat capabilities. In particular, in the endgame, the ability to attack two files (or ranks) and trap the king between them is pretty good. A Griffon plus a Rook is deadly. Get the King betwen the Griffon's forks and then move the rook in between and that is checkmate, even if the King is in the middle of the board! (When is the King ever checkmated in the middle of the board?) So maybe, just maybe, a Griffon can be better in the very endgame, but I'm not even sure that is clear. (King + Queen vs. King is much easier to carry out than King + Griffon vs. King, which is kinda tricky although still possible.)
I don't know the difference in value - a pawn sounds like a good starting point - but there is no doubt I will trade a Griffon for a Queen in even trade.
I also do not subscribe to formula. I've been here long enough to watch at least a half-dozen well-thought-out systems be disproven. The killer is that, not only has it not worked for pieces (e.g., the Archbishop is significantly stronger than anticipated), but also because it depends on the entire army (e.g., the individual pieces of the Nutty Knights aren't that strong, but together, they are totally overpowering.)
Regarding Griffon vs. Queen. I am firmly in the camp that the Queen is better. The case has been made that the larger board favors the Griffon - which is true to a point - but the difference is microscopic. The Griffon suffers more in the corner or the edge, especially if blocked at the key points. The larger the board, the fewer squares are edges/corners. But the difference is small and the Queen and Griffon are active, attacking pieces that aren't likely to be there anyway. Far more important is the fact that, while the Griffon has 8 rays, they emerge from 4 choke points where they can be blocked. This limits mobility measurably. Additionally, the Queen can slide along all 8 rays while continuing to attack the ray. The Griffon cannot do this at all. If it attacks even files, and makes a file-move, it now attacks odd files. Same with ranks. The result is that the Queen can triangulate - if it wants to attack a square, and is threatened and forced to move, it has several options of other squares to relocate to while still attacking the desired square. The Griffon has a much harder time with this - for squares outside short range there is no option at all. Also, it has problems with asymmetry. One Griffon can attack another and the other may not be able to attack back because they follow different paths. These sorts of anomolies do weaken peaces to some extent. FInally, a Queen cannot be attacked by a King because it attacks all adjacent squares. The Griffon can be approached.
All that said, the Griffon has some neat capabilities. In particular, in the endgame, the ability to attack two files (or ranks) and trap the king between them is pretty good. A Griffon plus a Rook is deadly. Get the King betwen the Griffon's forks and then move the rook in between and that is checkmate, even if the King is in the middle of the board! (When is the King ever checkmated in the middle of the board?) So maybe, just maybe, a Griffon can be better in the very endgame, but I'm not even sure that is clear. (King + Queen vs. King is much easier to carry out than King + Griffon vs. King, which is kinda tricky although still possible.)
I don't know the difference in value - a pawn sounds like a good starting point - but there is no doubt I will trade a Griffon for a Queen in even trade.