💡📝Kevin Pacey wrote on Wed, Dec 12, 2018 01:06 AM UTC:
I thought a little more about your second last post, and maybe I can add some insight regarding chess books and the uselessness of an advantage below a certain size for a given category of human player.
In the case of chess books, I haven't read much literature written recently for beginners, though you mentioned that level and it's a place to start. In old Reinfeld books meant for beginners (or low-level novices), he'd regularly give B=N=3. He probably knew even in his day that GMs considered a B just a shade better on average, though for Reinfeld to explain all the reasons that might be true would involve explanations over the head of his selected audience level (and the space limitations allowed by his editor, too, perhaps).
Another bit of half-truth that has been regularly used by chess authors, for similar reasons, is the explanation of the first few moves of the main line of the Scandinavian Defence, namely 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3. At this point authors often say something like Black will now have to lose time in the opening. But the truth is not so simple, as I have yet to see pointed out. First of all, 2.exd5 is not in any way a developing move. Second of all, after 3...Qa5 (or 3...Qd6) the level of development is equal (except White is on move, as usual): Both sides have a piece deployed, and each side has one diagonal open for a bishop.
However, Black has commited his queen rather early, and after good play by White the Black queen will have to move again, only now losing time, or Black will need to make some other sort of concession. Try writing all that, plus giving analysis, in a book with space limitations, though. So, a half-truth is conveniently told instead. There is even more to the story, as White's gain of time may not be won with a particularly potent extra move (e.g. Bc1-d2 played at some point after 3...Qa5), so that's why the Scandinavian Defence may not turn out to be so bad for Black - but to establish the evaluation of the opening takes in ever changing opening theory and evaluations (these days often contributed to by computers).
On top of all that, there is a lot of poor or obsolete chess writing out there. Fischer once 'wrote' a book that was to teach chess, but all it was was puzzle positions, if I recall correctly - i.e. not even piece values given in that book. There may also be overly complicated writing done for novices, too, at times (but not at all often) and it probably leaves them asking even more questions than e.g. simply if they were told B=N=3, which admittedly suffices to meet their needs at their level. However, they are also often told R=5, and I think (unlike you, perhaps) having a R for a N usually would be a significant advantage to have even at their level, even though a N is a tricky piece tactically speaking.
A further insight may be that Kaufman also once studied what material odds a lower-rated player might be given, and one of his conclusions was that a player rated 600 points lower than his opponent could be given the odds of a N, to evenly match the players. That study result I have little reason to doubt, for now, though I have not thought about it much.
The quest for piece values is clearly important to chess variant players, and a lot would prefer them to be as precise as possible, even if that matters not a bit at their level, and even if the quest for perfect accuracy is pointless (though there's also what value to state in a wiki or book, if one is forced to or wishes to). It's a bit like in chess where amatuers play complex openings like the Najdorf Sicialian where Black sometimes hangs on by his fingernails in certain sequences of moves played at elite level. At lower levels, the players wouldn't even find the moves over the board, or understand why they are played, just like having B=N=3 would suffice for them rather than N=3.49 and B=3.5, for example, if that happened to actually be the real values. Amatuers would be better off playing the safer, less trappy French Defence, for example, to end the rather imperfect analogy I first started. Sometimes a certain degree of precision for piece values may matter (at the least psychologically), though, say if one is debating whether to throw in a pawn, as part of a 3 for 2 trade, where the 3 includes said pawn.
Incidently, it's not clear to me you are a 'patzer' as at least once you corrected some faulty but very short analysis I hastily gave of a (fairy?) chess position (unless you somehow used an engine, which I doubted it was possible to in that particular case since the evaluation of whether an endgame was a draw was at stake, and you explained with words more than actual moves).
I thought a little more about your second last post, and maybe I can add some insight regarding chess books and the uselessness of an advantage below a certain size for a given category of human player.
In the case of chess books, I haven't read much literature written recently for beginners, though you mentioned that level and it's a place to start. In old Reinfeld books meant for beginners (or low-level novices), he'd regularly give B=N=3. He probably knew even in his day that GMs considered a B just a shade better on average, though for Reinfeld to explain all the reasons that might be true would involve explanations over the head of his selected audience level (and the space limitations allowed by his editor, too, perhaps).
Another bit of half-truth that has been regularly used by chess authors, for similar reasons, is the explanation of the first few moves of the main line of the Scandinavian Defence, namely 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3. At this point authors often say something like Black will now have to lose time in the opening. But the truth is not so simple, as I have yet to see pointed out. First of all, 2.exd5 is not in any way a developing move. Second of all, after 3...Qa5 (or 3...Qd6) the level of development is equal (except White is on move, as usual): Both sides have a piece deployed, and each side has one diagonal open for a bishop.
However, Black has commited his queen rather early, and after good play by White the Black queen will have to move again, only now losing time, or Black will need to make some other sort of concession. Try writing all that, plus giving analysis, in a book with space limitations, though. So, a half-truth is conveniently told instead. There is even more to the story, as White's gain of time may not be won with a particularly potent extra move (e.g. Bc1-d2 played at some point after 3...Qa5), so that's why the Scandinavian Defence may not turn out to be so bad for Black - but to establish the evaluation of the opening takes in ever changing opening theory and evaluations (these days often contributed to by computers).
On top of all that, there is a lot of poor or obsolete chess writing out there. Fischer once 'wrote' a book that was to teach chess, but all it was was puzzle positions, if I recall correctly - i.e. not even piece values given in that book. There may also be overly complicated writing done for novices, too, at times (but not at all often) and it probably leaves them asking even more questions than e.g. simply if they were told B=N=3, which admittedly suffices to meet their needs at their level. However, they are also often told R=5, and I think (unlike you, perhaps) having a R for a N usually would be a significant advantage to have even at their level, even though a N is a tricky piece tactically speaking.
A further insight may be that Kaufman also once studied what material odds a lower-rated player might be given, and one of his conclusions was that a player rated 600 points lower than his opponent could be given the odds of a N, to evenly match the players. That study result I have little reason to doubt, for now, though I have not thought about it much.
The quest for piece values is clearly important to chess variant players, and a lot would prefer them to be as precise as possible, even if that matters not a bit at their level, and even if the quest for perfect accuracy is pointless (though there's also what value to state in a wiki or book, if one is forced to or wishes to). It's a bit like in chess where amatuers play complex openings like the Najdorf Sicialian where Black sometimes hangs on by his fingernails in certain sequences of moves played at elite level. At lower levels, the players wouldn't even find the moves over the board, or understand why they are played, just like having B=N=3 would suffice for them rather than N=3.49 and B=3.5, for example, if that happened to actually be the real values. Amatuers would be better off playing the safer, less trappy French Defence, for example, to end the rather imperfect analogy I first started. Sometimes a certain degree of precision for piece values may matter (at the least psychologically), though, say if one is debating whether to throw in a pawn, as part of a 3 for 2 trade, where the 3 includes said pawn.
Incidently, it's not clear to me you are a 'patzer' as at least once you corrected some faulty but very short analysis I hastily gave of a (fairy?) chess position (unless you somehow used an engine, which I doubted it was possible to in that particular case since the evaluation of whether an endgame was a draw was at stake, and you explained with words more than actual moves).