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Comments by Jean-Louis Cazaux

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Rook. Moves across unobstructed orthogonal line.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Sat, Jun 1 12:30 PM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 11:22 AM:

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Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Sat, Jun 1 06:36 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 02:38 AM:

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Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Fri, May 31 10:16 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 07:43 PM:

Well Fergus, I don't know why you take everything like this. Always. I mean, you fight for every thing. Spirit of contradiction at the highest degree. I never had a single conversation with you that does not degenerate in controversy. At the end, it is me who is blamed of being too sensitive. I think I am not but you have a real talent to upset me, for the tiniest motive. Let's stop that here.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Fri, May 31 06:37 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 03:18 PM:

On rocca/fortress.

First Forbes is not a reliable historian, I believe that is well known, I don't need to develop.

Then the photos I have shown on my website are NOT demonstrating that these German, Dutch or English pieces have taken this form of a tower because an influence of an Italian word for fortress.

If you look Murray's p422n18 you will see that "rocca" is attested in Italy only on the 17th c. Before, we have rocco, pl. rocchi, rocho, roccho, roco, rrocho,and many other forms in Latin, Spanish, Catalan, Portuguese, Provençal (=Occitan), French, English, etc. So, in the most all the case, that piece was designated as a "rock". Obviously by phonetic resemblence with Arabic "rukh", mostly through Latin "rochus".

Murray (p772) says the modern form of the Rook as a tower appears first in Damiano in the 16th c. There are two reasons leading to imagine that piece as a tower: 1) the evolution of the abstract shape prevailing at that time, a sort of V, becoming a sort of Y. 2) having 4 pieces named "rock" at the 4 corners of the chessboard were suggesting the 4 towers at the corner of a castle. Naturally, a tower became one, but not the only one, physical representation of that piece. Later, players started to name that piece Torre, Tour, Turm, Torren, in Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Holland, etc.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Fri, May 31 05:57 PM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from 03:18 PM:

On rukh: A. Panaino "La novella degli scacchi e della tavola reale", 1999, p167-174. 7 pages to deal with this issue. Concluded by: non mi sembra necessario cercare a tutti i costi di inserire un "carro" nella lista dei pezzi del WCN. L'interpretazione "fianco" si pone come una soluzione non solo elegante sul piano della restituzione filologica, ma estremamente economica su quello etimologico. Infatti, se è evidente, come è comunamente accettato, che Ferdowsi non riconosce nel rux (=rukh) un "carro".

I cannot re-type the 7 pages, but even if you look at Murray pp159-160 you will see that 1) "Rukh is less simple", 2) "chariot" is not among the established senses in Persian, but "cheek" is. Then Murray tries to see a trace of "chariot" in Arabic. As, the piece was often represented as a chariot (even symbolic) the quote 'araba for rukh is understandable.

What Panaino is explaining (citing other scholars before him like MacKenzie) is that this piece was understood as an officier standing on the side of the army (the "cheeks") and that it was represented on a chariot, the chariot being no more used as a weapon on the 6th century but used by officiers to command on the troops. In 1913, Murray didn't have all these analysis.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Fri, May 31 05:43 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from Thu May 30 10:43 PM:

For Persian I refer to the writting of Antonio Panaino who is iranologist and wrote about this in 1998. Murray's book is 1913. Panaino explanation are clear and well informed, he is a recognized scholar on that.

For rocca in Italian, one would have to look at the italian etymology. I don't know if rocca was meaning fortress in an Italian dialect (which one?) by the end of the 10th century? Rocca, roch, roche, roca, rock in romance languages and in English (by French influence) are all connected to the root of rock, meaning a big stone. What is true is that the Arabic word of "rukh" or "rokh" used at chess had been understood as roca/rocca/roch/rock etc. in Western European languages when it entered in those lands. This was natural by phonetics. And the representation of a solid rock by a castle/tower was also natural and it happened in many places in Europe as you can see on http://history.chess.free.fr/first-european.htm


About Game Courier. Web-based system for playing many different variants by email or in real-time.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Fri, May 31 05:15 AM UTC in reply to Fergus Duniho from Thu May 30 08:37 PM:

@Fergus: maybe you didn't understand my point. "Suppose that in Chess, a player queens a Pawn, then it gets captured. Would it be more informative to show a Queen or a Pawn in the Captured Pieces section?" I would say the Pawn, or it could be the Queen as well, but is not my point.

My point is if a Pawn is queened, then the Pawn is shown among the captured pieces even when the new Queen is onboard. That doesn't show the balance in my opinion.

I would have the piece figuring among the captured ones only when it has been captured, either in its original or its promoted form.


Rook. Moves across unobstructed orthogonal line.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Thu, May 30 08:27 PM UTC:Poor ★

The introductory text is very approximative. The main idea is here, but the details are not correct. Rukh is not the Persian word for chariot. Rocca is not the Italian word for fortress. Etc.

I could propose a better text if needed.


About Game Courier. Web-based system for playing many different variants by email or in real-time.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Thu, May 30 06:32 PM UTC:

@Fergus: it is possible that this question has been asked before. When a game is played with GC, there is box appearing with captured pieces. This is quite useful to immediatly visualise the material advantage or disadvantage.

But when a piece is promoted, that initial piece also appears as a captured one. And then, the impression given by this box is wrong. The promoted piece has not been captured, it has not really left the board. It has just changed its form.

I would find more useful that the origal piece-before-promotion is not added to the list of captured pieces. What do you think?


Game Courier. PHP script for playing Chess variants online.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, May 22 08:00 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 05:51 PM:

@HG: thank you, yes there is no more problem. Do I need to do any change in the other games of the Timurid family which also authorize the promotion of the Prince?


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, May 22 02:59 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 12:58 PM:

@HG: thank you HG. Actually, it's worse than I thought. In my current game with Numerist I can't even move my Prince (white) to rank 1 because it would become either a black Queen or a black Prince. I have no way to let it remain a white Prince.


@ Bob Greenwade[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Wed, May 22 11:53 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 03:26 AM:

But do you have any reason to call it Japanese? As you say, it is not the shogi Pawn. If you have no reason, I wouldn't call it Japanese.


Game Courier. PHP script for playing Chess variants online.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Tue, May 21 08:21 PM UTC:

@HG: I have a question for you. In the GC I've made for Timurid series from the PTA, for instance here:

https://www.chessvariants.com/play/pbm/play.php?game=Timurid&settings=Default-PTA-v2

A white Prince may promote (or not) on rank 12 to a white Queen. This is normal. But a black Prince coming BACK to rank 12 may also promote to a WHITE Queen, which is absurd. I can't see what's wrong in my code. Would you please have a look?

Thanks a lot


Hibernian Chess. Members-Only Missing description (14x14, Cells: 196) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

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Centurion Chess. (Updated!) Centurions replace the Kings. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Mon, May 20 04:45 PM UTC:

I agree with Bob. So, may the last Centurion of a player considered as royal, i.e. it can be checkmated?

More comments. I don't see what the discussion on the size of the board, with the 10x10 being superior to the 8x8 and 12x12, has to do with the game. Apart from the fact that this game is played on 10x10 but so what? And this introductory comment is generalizing an opinion which is subjective. Some games are better on 8x8, others on 12x12, or 10x8, or 9x9 or any size. It depends of many things.

Nothing is said about Pawn's promotion. May the Pawn promote to Centurion?

The remark that there is no castling is quite obvious as there is no King.


@ Bob Greenwade[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Sun, May 19 05:02 PM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 02:11 PM:

Sorry, I mix up DC and AZ, obvious mistake.

Well, it's not a problem of being American or French, although I think that considering that everything may be called according to an American reference is a little bit upsetting for those barbarians who live outside.

Senators have not been "invented" in the US. There are senators in my country too, and probably elsewhere. And they are colorbound also if I may say. Senator would evoke also the Roman Republic. SPQR. Finally, yes, it makes a good name. Your reference to US Senate made me loose that point.

I'm a bit reluctant to use Governor, or General, Counsellor, Minister, these sort of names because there are many accross the different chess in the world or in history. My own bias is to think too much universal maybe (maybe because I'm not American, I joke). For instance, the red "King" is xiangqi, the shuai, maybe translated as Governor. Maybe you could be inspired by some names of function coming from the Antiquity, Roman, Greek, etc. to go along with Senator?

Or not, it doesn't matter.


Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Sun, May 19 11:41 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from 02:02 AM:

I think AZ and DC are interesting compounds. AZ is colorbound. DZ and AC are worth a look too. That being said, I don't think that Senator and Governor are good names for them.


Obento Chess. 12x12 Chess variant with Shogi-style promotions and bent sliding pieces. (12x12, Cells: 144) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Sat, May 18 08:14 PM UTC:

@HG: thank you very much for adding the icons I was missing for the ID of Obento. And thanks also to Daniel for their initial design.


alfaerie style pieces. Members-Only Missing description (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

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Play Chess Variants with Jocly. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Fri, May 17 11:09 AM UTC in reply to François Houdebert from 08:02 AM:

very nice Stag


Obento Chess. 12x12 Chess variant with Shogi-style promotions and bent sliding pieces. (12x12, Cells: 144) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Fri, May 17 11:00 AM UTC in reply to Bn Em from 10:34 AM:

@Bn Em: thank you for this indication. For the riders, I prefer those with arrows which are derived from the Gold and Silver G. with 1 point, at least in this Obento C. context. They have been used in AI AI by E Silverman for a long time and are also available in the Musketeer's board painter tool. Same thing for the Pashtuns with 2 points.


alfaerie style pieces. Members-Only Missing description (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

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Obento Chess. 12x12 Chess variant with Shogi-style promotions and bent sliding pieces. (12x12, Cells: 144) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Jean-Louis Cazaux wrote on Thu, May 16 11:43 AM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 12:46 AM:

@Haru: several BLACK pieces of your "960" implementation do not show up on the diagrams.


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