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Comments by JoostBrugh

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Hexa Decimal. Larger hexagonal chess variant. (11x11, Cells: 90) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Sun, May 8, 2005 08:55 PM UTC:
The ZRF implementation is already finished and so is the sample game. I
encountered some problems trying to send them to the Chess Variant Pages.
Probably this problem will be solved soon.

The colors pink, green and blue do not have any significance. Before I
created Hexa Decimal, I already had a hexagonal board from another game I
am working on. That game requires 7-hex colored segments. I deliberately
left the colors for decoration. The reason that the grey hexes have
colored outlines is that I first resized the board and then used the flood
fill tool to create grey hexes.

Joost Brugh wrote on Mon, May 9, 2005 11:17 PM UTC:
I haven't thought about notation while creating the game. Zillions'
notation is clear. But one might want a more beautiful notation.

Position naming: My Zillions file uses a 21x11 grid (a..u by 1..11,
lefmost cell is a6, three adjacent cells are b5, c6 and b7, etc). Naming
by segments or roads is probably more elegant. The position names should
have the same symmetry as the starting position.

Piece abbreviations: Zillions uses the whole piece name. It's possible to
abbreviate it to a letter and one might even use no letter for a Pawn. To
prevent ambiguity, use a T for Star, M for Pawn Master and an R for Prince
when using the letter P for Pawn.

Triggered effects: A Pawn Master creates Pawns. A King can create a Pawn
Master. The Disruptor, Star and Elephant can capture more pieces. Choose
whether or not to notate the effect.

Promotion move: In Zilions, the promotion move is executed by dragging one
invading Pawn to the Pawn Master and choose the piece. The Pawn captures
the Pawn Master and becomes the promoted piece and as an extra effect, the
other invading Pawns are removed. This creates ugly moves like 'Pawn p5 x
r5 x n5 = Disruptor on r5'. A promotion move can be notated by naming the
segment and the promoted piece.

Wizard move: In Zillions, a move caused by a Wizard is notated like
'PawnMaster g4 x i2', which looks very strange, especially when you move
an enemy piece. Notation should indicate that the move is caused by a
Wizard. Also a good idea is to notate whether the moved piece is a
friendly piece or an enemy piece.

Check, mate, stalemate: Can be done like in chess.

Regenbogen. Unusual spectrum-based game with Wizards, Clerics and Spirits. (Cells: 44) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Mon, Dec 19, 2005 11:37 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Nice game. And a nice ZRF challenge. I've made a ZRF file for this game,
but I wonder whether I interpret the rules correctly.

In the requirements, 10 white and black Drones are listed. For both white
and black, these are seven Drones (for each Wizard one) plus four spell
Drones for the Cleric, which makes 11. Does this mean that the Cleric is
also a spell Drone by itself and actually has three spell Drones? (Like
health Pawns). In my ZRF, I used four spell Drones (so, the actual total
number of opaque Drones is 11 per color).

Another thing is that when you are in a bad position, you can build a wall
of spirits (say three per color of which you still have a Wizard). And then
keep your Wizard behind and adjacent to their color's spirits. When a
spirit dies, just resummon it on the same position. So, if I interpret the
rules right, the game is a dead draw.

Does this mean that is shouldn't be legal to resummon on the position a
spirit just died? Or that when you slay a unit in fight, you occupy the
position? Or can units even move through occupied positions?

Hordes of Change - Sample Game. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Mon, Dec 19, 2005 11:45 PM UTC:
I must admit that the game will take long. However, the 120+ moves shouldn't be a conclusion from this sample game, because White is already chanceless in the diagram before the checkmate. If the game weren't meant to show piece dynamics, White would have resigned after move 91 or earlier. But indeed, this is still quite long. However, not longer than many games on these pages.

Joost Brugh wrote on Tue, Dec 20, 2005 12:44 AM UTC:
I think simplification is only possible by reducing the number of pieces (especially play with one King/Knight) and eventually make a smaller board. For example, six bishops, seven rooks and one king on the first two rows of a 7x7 board. It should reduce the number of required moves. A problem with only one King/Knight is that the King/Knight is required to eliminate pieces. The game concept itself shouldn't be simplified. That isn't even that complex. I'll test a variant with a smaller board and less pieces.

Regenbogen. Unusual spectrum-based game with Wizards, Clerics and Spirits. (Cells: 44) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Tue, Dec 20, 2005 05:44 PM UTC:
Unnamed comment was mine.

Neutron 45. Variant of the game Neutron on a 45-squared board. (7x7, Cells: 45) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Joost Brugh wrote on Wed, Jan 11, 2006 01:35 PM UTC:
I already have a ZRF. But I had to ask some questions to the Chess Variant Pages about member submitted ZRF's and board images larger tan 100k. I have tested it quite a lot. The game can easily be over in about 10 full moves. The game could take a bit longer if the level of play is higher, but it should still be much shorter than a chessgame. Neutron 45 can be compared with the classic Neutron. The main element is the same. Classic Neutron is more tactical (like a mate in n-problem) and Neutron 45 is more strategical (like a chess middle game).

💡📝Joost Brugh wrote on Sun, Jan 15, 2006 05:07 PM UTC:
Neutron is a game that is in the basis set of Zillions games. The rules are the same as for Neutron 45, except that the board is 5x5 or 7x7 and that players start with a back rank full of Pawns and no other pieces. There is no 45 contest. If there will be a 45 contenst, this game will appear in the non-competing list.

Penta War ZIP file. Huge game with five clans.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Joost Brugh wrote on Sat, Jan 21, 2006 01:08 PM UTC:
Strange. I tested it and it worked. Maybe it has something to do with the
directory structure. In the Penta directory should be the following
files:

Admin.zif
Board.zif (Replaced with the one from small.zip)
Clans.zif
Moves.zif
Palace.zif
Penta.zrf
Variants.zif
Images\ (Contents completely replaced with .bmp's from small.zip)

There should also a board.bmp in Small.zip\Images.

💡📝Joost Brugh wrote on Sun, Jan 22, 2006 05:15 PM UTC:
Good point. I got used to those piece images by playtesting and forgot that it may be a bit too hard. I've created a new piece set based on the images of the Chess clan and colored markers. If you want to use the small images, you must use the Board.zif from the original small images. You can use both piece sets with the new Clans.zif.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Joost Brugh wrote on Sun, Jan 22, 2006 11:58 PM UTC:
I see that my ZRF significantly undervalues Coordinators. You can fool Zillions and make it think that a piece is more valuable by adding useless add's. The problem with the old ZRF is that the Coordinator is not obliged to capture the coordinated enemy pieces. If you do:

...
(capture ThisAndThat)
add add add add
...

ThisAndThat is only captured in the first add. This action is canceled after that add. The three other add's do a move without performing the capture-action. Maybe it also works if you even further fool Zillions by adding 'completely useless add's'

(piece
  (name Coordinator)
  ...
  (moves
    (move-type Regular)
    (CoordinatorMove n)
    ...
    (move-type Monkey)
    (add add add add add add)
  )
)

And say in the turn-order that White and Black do only Regular moves. I don't know much about Zillions AI. But maybe this works.


[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Joost Brugh wrote on Wed, Jan 25, 2006 04:07 PM UTC:
I think such ideas fits well in the idea of a contest. A contest should
make people creative by giving a thing to start. It is hard to just create
a game from scrap, but if there is one idea given, it is much easier to be
creative.

Previous contests were almost all about a number of squares on the board.
It would be interesting to begin a contest with another given idea than
number of squares. An inventive goal would be a nice example.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Joost Brugh wrote on Wed, Feb 8, 2006 02:19 PM UTC:
Probably, it isn't even necessary to add (White Displacement) in the turn-order. You can use (add-partial Displacement) in the Displacer's move, which allows your Displacer to make an extra Displacement-move. The turn-order should be (White Regular) (Black Regular). The Displacement-move should just move a piece to be displaced to the desired position, using from. Don't forget the (verify (or (not-piece? Traveler) (on-board? s))). The question is how you want to pass this move. You can do something with pass partial options. If that doesn't workt just add a move ((set-attribute Monkey false) add) (a move of which Zillions think it is something, but in fact isn't.

Regenbogen ZIP file. Unusual spectrum-based game with Wizards, Clerics and Spirits.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝Joost Brugh wrote on Sun, Feb 19, 2006 11:48 PM UTC:
I see that 'create' is a command which is only in Zillions 2.0 or higher. It is used a lot of times. I don't know what happens if a lower version of Zillions read 'create'. Intuitively, I would expect an error. But if it is simply ignored, than the game just does strange things.

Wildeursaian Qi. Variant on 10 by 10 board combining ideas of several existing variants. (10x10, Cells: 100) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Tue, Feb 28, 2006 04:50 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
The point Fergus is making is that strong pieces are confined to their own half of the board. Both players can avoid these pieces simply by keeping their Kings on their own halfs of the board. This doesn't really restrict the Kings' mobility. A way to get a draw in a bad position is trading all compound pieces for attacking non-compound pieces, sit back and see that the enemy compound pieces can't do anything against your King. I still think that the game is a harmonic combination of games on these pages making it a good game for a contest celebrating 10 years of Chess Variant Pages.

Gnu ZIP file. Simple game featuring the Gnu as promotee.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Joost Brugh wrote on Tue, Feb 28, 2006 10:28 PM UTC:
Fixed idiotic 5x10/10x5-error.

Penta War ZIP file. Huge game with five clans.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝Joost Brugh wrote on Wed, Mar 1, 2006 01:59 PM UTC:
If you go to Game Courier (Via Chess Variants main page -> Play -> Game
Courier). Click on the Editor. You can also reach this page by going to any
Game Courier preset and choose 'Edit this preset'. Then, you see a table on
which the game is defined. If you set the 'Set group' to 'Chess', then you
can set the 'Set' to 'Galactic Graphics'. Then, click on update and the
game pieces will change into the Galactic graphics. If you then scroll
down, you see a whole alphabet of pieces for both White and Black. You can
see other piece sets as well.

Update: I see that my link didn't work and that Christine had the link to an
even more complete set of Galactic graphics. I used only the 26 from Game
Courier. Nice :)

Galactic Graphics. Download this new set of graphics used in Roberto Lavieri's games![All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Wed, Mar 1, 2006 03:21 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Very cool Graphics. Now I understand where those slightly different graphics in some Zillions implementations came from. I was used to the 26 in the Game Courier set.

Chakra ZIP file. Variant with fairy pieces and transmitters that can transport pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Wed, Mar 15, 2006 12:23 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
This game is very good. I first thought the Transmitter would dominate the
game, but that is certainly not the case. Especially the endgame can be
very interesting with Kings interacting with Courtesans and Transmitters.
I like the idea a vulnerable piece (the King) is required to fulfill
certain tasks (Guide Courtesans, protect and attack the Transmitter)

On a moment I saw that my opponent had three Chakra's and I had only one.
The problem is that a Chakra becomes an enemy Chakra if you use your King
to move off yor Courtesan from your Chakra. I found the bug in the ZRF:

On line 347 (in courtslide-copy) '(slide-ecopysub' should be
'(slide-copysub'

Chess Variant Pages Rating System. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Thu, Mar 23, 2006 04:32 PM UTC:
A good thing about a new system is that there is something rated between
Good and Poor. If I rate something 'Good', I think it is Good and not
the second best out of three possible ratings.

A problem with popularity lists is that it could become a competition.
Comments should be used to give feedback, to ask and answer question or
something like that. Feedback and discussion can be used as inspiration
for new projects. I think it shouldn't be about who scores the most
comment-points.

Index page of The Chess Variant Pages. Our main index page.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Thu, Mar 23, 2006 04:45 PM UTC:
Like Christine, I think that Miserable and the stuff below is useless. What
is the difference between a 'Hideous' and 'Loathsome' item? Is the
'Hideous' one better? I think both 'Hideous' and 'Loathsome' (and
all those low rating) means that the item is has no value. If you think a
submission is 'Loathsome', you should say what the problem is and so
increase the chance that the next submission of the same inventor is not
'Loathsome'. Not add a negative atmoshpere by crying 'Loathsome!!'.

About specifications like Playability: Neutral, Graphics: Good, etc. I
think it is good enough if those specifications are said in the comment
text. At least if I can say something between 'Good' and 'Poor', it
should be fine. I think that ratings are less important than the comment
text.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
Joost Brugh wrote on Fri, Mar 31, 2006 03:44 PM UTC:
In Shogi, it is illegal to drop a Pawn to give checkmate. In Zillions, this
is hard to program, because you have to detect checkmate 'by hand'. And
indeed, there is still a possibility to give checkmate by dropping a Pawn
in the Shogi ZRF. If you drop a Pawn on a position which is defended by a
pinned defender, you can give checkmate. This is an easy error to make,
because Zillions doesn't think you should use a checkmate condition for
something else than ending the game (though Shogi is included in Zillions
itself). Stranger is that the Shogi Variant program (there is a link from
this site to  that program), that error is also made. It is strange that
the program is able to detect checkmate (It says: Game over), but it
didn't detect checkmate to render the Pawn drop illegal. So I wondered
what the exact rule is: 'A Pawn cannot be dropped to give checkmate' or
'A Pawn dropped to give check is only legal if dropped on an attacked
position or if the King has a flight square' (The latter case would
legalize a Pawn drop mate on a position attacked by a pinned defender.

Joost Brugh wrote on Sun, Apr 2, 2006 08:42 PM UTC:
I knew that the move-priorities-trick does not work. Zillions resolves
move-priorities before the checkmate condition. So it first concludes
there is a normal move and then thus renders the special move illegal
versus the move-priorities. And then it renders all normal moves illegal
because of check. A possible solution is to take into account that
defenders can be pinned by Bishops, Rooks, Dragon Horses and Dragon Kings.
It is easy to implement (A defending capture move is either like a Bishop,
like a Rook or like a forwardmost Knight, the relative position of the
mating Pawn with respect to the mated King is fixed. This leaves six
pinnable positions for defenders (four diagonal and two orthogonal).

However, this does not solve the problem. It just reformulates the Pawn
drop rule to 'A Pawn may not be dropped to check the enemy King when ...
(long formulation involving the geometric explanation of some specific
pins) ...'. It should be 'A Pawn may not be dropped to give checkmate'.
In Shogi these rules may have the same effect, but it doesn't give a
checkmate-detection that always works. If someone wants to use Shogi.zrf
to make a Shogi variant with some different pieces, he or she can never
know that the Pawn Drop Mate rule is well implemented. The same problem is
there for Tamerlane 2000, where Princes can become Kings when the original
King is mated (It is not implemented because detecting checkmate in
Tamerlane 2000 is a nightmare). Another example is 'Thirty-Nine squares
Chess' where you may leave your King in check, but you lose if you are
mated (Kings return when captured). I have an ugly solution for the last
example, but the ZRF is still too ugly and buggy to publish.

A (dirty) solution would be that the Pawn Drop Mated player can declare
checkmate after a pawn drop. On such a declaration, the whole position if
flipped (A Black Gold on 3f becomes a White Gold on 7d, etc) and the
player that dropped the Pawn is automatically checkmated if it were
checkmate, but that player should win the game if he or she can continue
with a legal move (Penaly for a false declaration). It takes a while to
implement. You have to know whether the opponent just did a Pawn drop, the
flip mechanism must be implemented. The flip must be registered (for
instance by dropping a Sign piece on a dummy position). These Sign pieces
should also enable a 'death penalty'-move if the dropping player manages
to prove that it isn't checkmate. Anyway, it really fucks up the ZRF just
to use the (checkmated ...)-command in a different context then ending the
game.

Recognized Chess Variant: Wildebeest Chess. Now a Recognized Chess Variant![All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Joost Brugh wrote on Mon, Apr 3, 2006 11:30 AM UTC:
There is no forced mate with Wildebeest + King against lone King:

There are two different checkmates with a Wildebeest and King against a
lone King (not counting mirror images or rotated images):
a. White Wildebeest d2, White King b3 and Black King a1
b. White Wildebeest d2, White King a3 and Black King a1
The Wildebeest moved last. Before that move, the positions were
a. White Wildebeest X, White King b3 and Black King a1
b. White Wildebeest X, White King a3 and Black King a1
X is a position from where a Wildebeest can move to d2
Blacks last move is Kb1-a1. Before that move, the positions were
a. White Wildebeest X, White King b3 and Black King b1
b. White Wildebeest X, White King a3 and Black King b1
Blacks Kb1-a1 must be forced, so all other squares must be covered. Square
c1 can't be covered by the White King, so c1 must be covered by the
Wildebeest, so X is a position that both covers d2 and c1. There is only
one solution: X = b3. So possibility a is impossible, because both the
Wildebeest and the King must be on b3. This leaves possibility b, but
there, the Black King can move to c2

Joost Brugh wrote on Mon, Apr 3, 2006 11:43 AM UTC:
By the Way: The possibility with both the Wildebeest and the King on b3
would be stalemate anyway.

For the Camels: the Checkmate positions are:

White King (a3 or b3), White Camel (b4 or d2) White Camel (a4, c4 or e2)
Black King a1
White's (b4 or d2)-Camel moved last, so before that move, the Camel was
on (c1, e3, e5, c7, a7, a3, c5, g3 or g1) (No a1 because of the Black
King).
Black moved Kb1-a1:
Position before that:
White King (a3 or b3), White Camel (c1, e3, e5, c7, a7, a3, c5, g3 or g1)
White Camel (a4, c4 or e2) Black King b1.
Blacks Kb1-a1 must be forced, so c1 must be covered by a Camel (The King
doesn't cover it). So there must be a Camel on b4, d4 or f2, but there
isn't. So no mate with King + two Camels against lone King.

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