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Hans Aberg wrote on Tue, Sep 21, 2004 05:09 PM UTC:

All three variations keep the relative order between the old chess pieces,
keeping the positions of the rooks at the sides, and the queen and the
king at the center, with the white queen to the left. The board colors
are
such that the white queen ends up on a white square. All three variations
agree that the weaker of the two new pieces, the Archbishop, moving as a
Bishop or a Knight, should be at the Queen side, and that the stronger
piece, the Chancellor, moving as a Rook or Knight, should be at the King
side. This seems natural, as the Queen side is already stronger in
Orthodox Chess, thus balancing up the King side somewhat.

Bird put the new pieces next to the King, Capa between the Knights and
Bishops, and I suggested that they should be put next to the Rooks. I
think the preferred positioning may depend on playing style: The more
'rough' it is, the more one might want to have the new pieces to the
center. I like the Fianchetto where the Bishops point towards the center
four squares, and I want the light pieces early into the game, as is
customary playing in Orthodox Chess, therefore, I want the new, heavier
pieces out of the way in the earliest stages of the opening game.

In addition, widening the board I think will cause that too much moves
are
spent on castling preparations. Therefore I suggested an Enhanced
Castling
rule. The other variations do not have that, but those variations can be
played with or without it.

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Comments

Aberg variation of Capablanca's Chess. Different setup and castling rules. (10x8, Cells: 80)

💡📝Hans Aberg wrote on Sat, May 3, 2008 04:43 PM UTC:

H.G.Muller:
| But the point is that this does not alter the piece values.

Right, though that might be just a preferred way to structure theory because it suits human thinking. Essentially, define contexts, and attach values to them. First define piece values in nutralk settings. Then observe that the bishop pair gets an added value. Then try to figure out values for good and poor bishops. And so on. By contrast, computers tend to be very poor at handling such contexts, so other methods might be suitable for programs.

Derek Nalls wrote on Sat, May 3, 2008 03:26 PM UTC:

Muller:

You have my best regards toward your worthwhile effort to publish your
empirical, statistical method for obtaining the material values of pieces
in the ICGA Journal.  My assessment is that it will surely be a much
better paper than the junk [name removed] published in the same journal
regarding piece values.

[The above has been edited to remove a name and/or site reference. It is
the policy of cv.org to avoid mention of that particular name and site to
remove any threat of lawsuits. Sorry to have to do that, but we must
protect ourselves. -D. Howe]

H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, May 3, 2008 03:22 PM UTC:

Sure, this is what people do and have done for ages. It is well known that the advantage of having the move is worth 1/6 of a Pawn, (corresponding in normal Chess to a white score of 53-54%) and that, by inference, wasting a full move is equivalent to 1/3 of a Pawn.

But the point is that this does not alter the piece values. It just adds to them, like every positional advantage adds to them. In my test the advantage of having the lead move is neutralized by playing every position both with white to move and black to move.

💡📝Hans Aberg wrote on Sat, May 3, 2008 11:50 AM UTC:

H.G.Muller:
| As piece values are only useful as strategic guidelines for quiet
| positions, they cannot be sensitive to who has the move.

At the beginning of the game, white is thought to have a slight advantage, and the first task of black will be attempting to neutralize that. And it might be possible set a picee value to that positional advantage, just as when reasoning in terms of getting positional compensation for a sacrifice. Somewhat less han a pawn, perhaps. If one knows about the black/white winning statistics, one might be able to set a value on it that way. It may not be usable for a computer program as it does not change sides, but only computes the relative values of moves.

H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, May 3, 2008 10:34 AM UTC:

As piece values are only useful as strategic guidelines for quiet positions, they cannot be sensitive to who has the move. A position where it matters who has the move is by definition nont quiet, as one ply later that characteristic will have essentially changed. So at the level of piece-value strategies, Chess is a perfectly symmetric game.

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