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Whale Shogi. Shogi variant. (6x6, Cells: 36) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
mike wrote on Wed, Feb 5, 2003 01:40 PM UTC:Good ★★★★if a player has a killer whale, and that player captures the other's killer whale, does he get to place another killer whale or does it return as a dolphin?
Anonymous wrote on Wed, Feb 5, 2003 08:14 PM UTC:What made you think you'd get a dolphin? considering a killer whale comes from capturing the enemy porpise...and I'd say you'd keep the killer whale.
mike wrote on Thu, Feb 6, 2003 06:15 PM UTC:Good ★★★★oops, I meant to say porpoise. I was wondering if in that instance, you would be allowed to have two killer whales.
If Hans has interpreted the inventor correctly, a captured Killer Whale does not demote to Porpoise. Only two special rules about drops are given (for Porpoise and Dolphin), and the general rule is that the taken piece becomes a reinforcemnt to be dropped. This is probably the best for play balance as well--the Killer Whale is enormously powerful in this game and it costs less to lose it if it demotes when captured.
mike wrote on Mon, Feb 10, 2003 04:03 PM UTC:Thanks for the clarification!
Charles Gilman wrote on Mon, Sep 20, 2004 02:09 PM UTC:I note that a Dolphin cannot be dropped on a file already containing two of the same player's Dolphins. Can a Dolphin on its last rank make its Bishop move into such a file?
It's been a long time since I've looked at this game, but I'm sure my
intention was to limit each player to at most two dolphins per file,
similar to the restriction on swallows in tori shogi. Thus, bishop-moving
dolphins should only be allowed to move to files containing 0 or 1
friendly dolphins.
To clarify another issue I see posted: In my original rules draft, I
wrote: 'On capturing the opposing Porpoise, a player adds an Orca (Killer
Whale) into his reserve, and the Porpoise is permanently removed from
play.' So an Orca always remains an Orca, and can be captured and then
dropped as an Orca as well. It's possible for one player to have both
Orcas.
By the way, around the same time as I designed this game, I also created a
really complicated 11x11 Whale Shogi ('Great Whale Shogi'?), inspired by
Wa Shogi. Each of the 28 pieces per side is different and has a different
promotion; and even the pawns are unique calves that promote to the type
of whale found in their file. Anyone intereted in rules can write me.--RWSIt would be nice to see a Zillions rules file for this!
A fine small Shogi variant. I would love to see the rules for the 11x11 variant.
Whale Shogi is a very good game. A ZRF would not be very difficult, I´m sorry I have not time enough to do it, for a while, but perhaps other people can be encouraged to write the code.
The average number of moves to finish a good Whale Shogi game may be not very high, perhaps around 20 moves. I think this class of game should be excellent in a 7X7 baord, but it is the need of another piece to insert coherently in the game. (well, it is easy show ideas, the interesting thing is chose the best one, without a loss of the personality of the game. I don´t think that the criterium would be uniform in this case, and accepted as the best by everybody)
Roberto Lavieri thinks that 'this class of game should be excellent in a 7X7 board'. Here is my (never been playtested) suggestion:
bnpwcgh/ddddddd/7/7/7/DDDDDDD/HGCWPNB
where C = Grey Whale Calf, moving straight forward as a wazir, and diagonally backwards as a ferz. Pieces still do not promote in this game, apart from the special killer whale rule. Note that the Grey Whale (and Calf) have the same moves as the Multi General (and Dog) from Tenjiku Shogi.
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
7 | H | G | C | W | P | N | B |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
6 | D | D | D | D | D | D | D |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
5 | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
4 | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
3 | | | | | | | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
2 | d | d | d | d | d | d | d |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
1 | b | n | p | w | c | g | h |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
a b c d e f gYes, it can be good in 7x7, and Grey Whale Calf is a possibility, but adding a bit more power can be tested too, by example: allowing a two-squares-sliding forward movement for this piece. Some tests are needed. In the future, if I have some free time, I´ll try a ZRF, to see.
David,
I implemented your suggestion for the Gray Whale calf and Its placement in the Whale Shogi zrf that Karl Scherer and I made. It is at zillions-of-games.com. The only difference for this 7x7 variant that I called Paulowich Whale Shogi 7x7 is the type of whale I used is a Pacific Northern Right Whale (R) instead of Gay Whalf calf for the movement you described. It plays very well. Thanks.
www.zillions-of-games.com for Whale Shogi or Karl Scherer's website linked from there.
Graphics pieces and standard Latin Notation pieces.
Whale Shogi and Great Whale Shogi, both by R. Wayne Schmittberger, are available to download and play from www.zillions-of-games.com if you own the zillions-of-games software.
enjoy!
-Doug
Thank you for implementing this. I have Wayne's rules in a rough draft form. I was considering making the rules more accessible to the public on his behalf, but I never received any go-ahead from him, nor have I had much free time of late. I'm glad the ZRF is available so everyone can finally enjoy this game that Wayne invented.
Thanks.
Yes, Wayne gave me the go-ahead and I, also have his rough draft rules. I emailed this site with a more detailed info page on the game itself. We'll see if it gets posted. I do not have posting/editing abilities here or else the Great Whale Shogi page would be up already.
Again, thanks for the kind words.
-Doug
I just noticed Charles Gilman's comment. Yes, Charles. The Dolphin can make his backwards move to a file containing another Dolphin. I don't understand the logic behind the Porpoise though.
David Howe wrote on Tue, Oct 2, 2007 01:54 PM UTC:Doug, you should now be able to register. Just go to your information page and follow the instructions. Your information page is here.
Once you finished registering, you should be able to post your own games.
I am curious, is there a write-up for the rules of Great Whale Shogi anywhere online ? This would make a valuable addition to THIS website.
I just created a page for Great Whale Shogi by R. Wayne Schmittberger. Hopefully, it will be up soon. Thank you very much, David for letting me join. be well all! -Douglas
A significant segment of 'human' population would object to the name of this CV, because of the juxtapositon of 'Whale' and 'Shogi'. The reason starts with the association of Shogi as Japan's national Chess game, Shogi coming into being there up to 1000 years ago. Second, the reported continued, at times indiscriminate slaughter of Whales and Dolphins by Japanese fishermen as matter of current documented, videotaped practice. The objectors would cite the intelligence of fellow sentient creatures being pointlessly exterminated, adults with brains larger than humans' and equally active, and the more pointless because mercury(Hg) levels' in specimen having been determined to exceed standards within Japan itself, excluding most of their uses for foods.
Joe Joyce wrote on Wed, Nov 14, 2007 10:18 PM UTC:George, I believe you just rated a 26-year-old game 'Poor' because you did not like its name. I have to believe much of what you say is humorous. Consider the other ratings; your poor corrected an imbalance of good ratings. Essentially, you nulled out 2 improper ratings there without changing the overall rating. Nice job, but bizarre sense of humor. ;-) Enjoy, Joe
Chess Variant Page eliminated a couple of large Shogis in late 1990's because of pieces with 'Demon' appellation or hyphenation or two-word name one being 'Demon'. They were long articles showing large Chesses of more than 12 or 15 or even 20 pieces(types). The articles were interesting, and I for one was not finished studying them. One or more Editors thought 'Demon' was inappropriate, their prerogative, and the write-ups are long gone. There were brief explanation but no real follow-up commenting; it was generally accepted as Editorial policy. In any event, thus objecting to a game for the name and that being sufficient for 'Poor' are not without precedent, having occurred even in this same Shogi family. When we re-rate, we always add substance. Whale Shogi is Poor also for 8 piece-types on 36 squares, where an idealized from several standpoints would be 4 or 5. See Game Design thread Comments years 2003-2005, when standards of Comments were high before reduction in number of regular Commenters by the last year or 1 1/2 being dominated(downgrading) by fewer prolificists.
I've played Whale Shogi. It's fun. For someone to rate it 'poor' in protest against Japanese whaling practices is really, really weird.
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